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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (619013)	7/13/2011 12:28:44 PM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1584285

Unions are organized workers. They are organizations of workers, just as corporations are organizations of lower level non-management workers, management, and owners. In both cases the organization is connected to the individuals, but its also a distinct entity from them. Or to use an example from outside labor relations, the United States, the government of the United States, and the citizens of the United States are three different (although obviously connected) things. With corporations the board and the executivies are supposed to represent the owner's interest. Obviously they don't always do this perfectly. The principle-agent problem can be a major issue. But even if they perfectly represented the owners, the owners, and the executives, the board, and the company as a whole, are all different things. Similarly with the government, the politicians are supposed to represent the voters. Its no secret that they don't always do a good job of it. But even if they where perfect (if perfect could even be defined in this context) the politicians, the government, and the people, are different things. Its the same with the union and the workers. Representation is imperfect (whether the goal is considered making wise decisions supporting the interest of the workers, or whether its considered following the opinions of the workers), and even if it was perfect, the union would still be an organization separate from the workers. but management controls the process Typically no one has total control of the process. And the unions fight hard to make sure management can't control the process. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, its there job to influence the process, I'm just pointing out that they do this, and keep management from having total control, and sometimes they even have more control than management (although to the extent that's the case, while you can blame the unions for mistakes using the control, you have to blame the management for being week, or if some external force like the government tilts things to much in the unions favor you have to blame the government ) "Not if they are part of the union contract." They absolutely can if the company is in financial trouble No, not "in financial trouble", only as part of a bankruptcy. And the union for lobbying the government to do this, but I'd blame the government more on such things, just as I blame them more for giving in to corporate rent-seeking than I blame the corporations.

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (619013)	7/13/2011 11:01:43 PM
From: i-node	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1584285

>> The RW god Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers didn't he???? PATCO members were breaking the law by striking. Logically, Reagan had no choice but to fire them. They were, after all, breaking the law. As an aside, we now know that when PATCO strikers were fired, the Soviets took notice they were dealing with an extremely serious individual, and the firing of PATCO workers played a not-insignificant role in the tough negotiations Reagan conducted with the Soviets throughout his presidency.