SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: skinowski who wrote (438511)8/2/2011 10:07:38 AM
From: MulhollandDrive2 Recommendations  Respond to of 793969
 
i have to say the foxconn story was a head scratcher for me....what do they pay the workers? $5/day?

and isn't the low wage their arbitrage advantage?

you can build robot factories anywhere

as was stated on another forum....

will the robots buy ipads?



To: skinowski who wrote (438511)8/2/2011 10:10:14 AM
From: TimF2 Recommendations  Respond to of 793969
 
Instead of super-efficient machinery we had millions of inexpensive Chinese workers.

And super-efficient machinery, which is one of the reasons the US keeps producing more, just about every non-recession year industrial production goes up (and service production, which is real production, something useful, not properly dismissed as not producing anything also goes up, and typically agricultural and mining production also increase)

Jobs are down

With the recession and with the slow recovery, and with increased government interference esp. with the Obama administration, but its hardly just his fault, its been going on for awhile.

If there is any reason to be pessimistic that's it, not technological improvements or expansion of trade.



To: skinowski who wrote (438511)8/2/2011 12:19:37 PM
From: Maurice Winn7 Recommendations  Respond to of 793969
 
The price of people is not a fixed quantity, and people are not fungible. "We" and "us" is collectivist ideology. Of course not all of "us" are going to do well from anything. "We" can't all get rich from each new technology but everyone is still better off than without it.

After a billion years of improvement, there seems to be no limit so far and none likely any time soon. It's not really religion to expect Earth to keep going around the sun and progress on Earth to continue since that's what has always happened. < The belief in endless progress and infinite human inventiveness which will eternally keep saving us - is partly a religion, and an extrapolation. > We can pretty well conclude that existence is teleological and that the sky's the limit, with the latest improvement being consciousness about to go extra-somatic. That has already started with memory being outsourced to Google and all sorts of monitoring systems doing things for us. Pretty soon we won't even have to drive our own cars because they'll drive themselves. Soon after that, we won't be allowed to drive them because putting chimps in charge of 120 kph cars hurtling along a two lane road with the only safety barrier being a dotted white line will be considered absurd, even if the drivers are not drunk.

There is no particular reason why consciousness should be limited to protoplasm and more than that transport should be limited to feet or horses. Boats work well and so do hypersonic aircraft.

Mqurice



To: skinowski who wrote (438511)8/2/2011 12:39:50 PM
From: ig  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 793969
 
So far, there is no sign of any big new ideas and technologies that would keep us all employed, making money and things - and make us competitive.

The notion that there is no shortage of work is cute, but if we start hiring each other at super low wages that would simply mean that we are heading towards poverty.
.

People are going to have to start rethinking their beliefs about work and about where money comes from:

World’s Largest Electronics Manufacturer Foxconn Wants 1 Million More Robots In 3 Years. Bye-bye Human Labor
from Singularity Hub by Aaron Saenz

1 person liked this

Foxconn announced it will be adding 1 million robots in the next three years. Is human labor on the way out?

Cheap labor isn’t cheap enough for the world’s largest electronics manufacturer. Terry Gou, the CEO of Foxconn recently told employees that they would be replacing human workers with one million robots over the next three years. These robots would handle many basic manufacturing tasks such as spraying, welding, and assembly. Foxconn is based in Taiwan and has nearly 1.2 million workers, the vast majority of which (~1M) live in China, but it’s unclear how many humans would be losing their positions during the switch. Even if robots are used to augment production rather than completely replace people, we’re looking at a major shift in the industry. Contracted with Apple (it’s rumored Foxconn makes the iPad2), HP, Dell, Nokia, Sony, and many other top brands, the electronics giant is singlehandedly responsible for nearly half of all such technological production in the world! If Foxconn switches from cheap Chinese labor to robots, can the rest of the world be far behind?

According to Xinhua News, Gou’s comment was made at a company dance party last week. (Way to kill the mood, Gou.) Without a formal press announcement, it’s unclear how drastic the cuts in human labor will be, though Gou said the move was intened to “replace some of its workers with 1 million robots in three years to cut rising labor expenses and improve efficiency.”

Those rising labor expenses come in the form of bad press as well as actual financial costs. Since 2010, the world news outlets have been reporting on a ‘rash’ of suicides among Foxconn’s Chinese workers, supposedly due to harsh conditions, long hours, and low pay. Last year, Gou announced that the number of suicides (roughly 18 in 2010 alone) were well within the statistical expectations for the company (as compared to general rates among the Chinese populace). Continued tragedies surrounding Foxconn’s factories in China, however, continue to link the electronics giant to poor labor practices, as this more recent IDG news clip attests:

Popout

Terry Gou’s recent announcement, then, may be a political statement as much as a business plan. Tell us our working conditions are too harsh on people…well then we’ll just remove the people. Howda you like dem Apple(iPad2)s?

No matter their rationale, the shift in workers is a gargantuan overhaul. Currently Foxconn only has around 10,000 factory robots in use, but somehow plans to increase that figure to 300,000 during 2012 and up to 1 million in 2014. That seems like a herculean task, though not impossible. Foxconn has also already announced plans to increase mainland China workers to about 1.3 million by year’s end. If both projections are correct, it looks like Foxconn will be growing in both human and robot workers, or perhaps using traditional labor as they continue to increase their automation. Either way, the company clearly means to stay at the top of the global electronics market.


As their yearly revenue shows, Foxconn is the biggest name in the game, with a reputation for increasing their production rates at incredible speeds. Their compound annual growth rate has been over 50% for a decade. If they think increased automation is the way to maintain that growth, you can bet others will want (even need) to follow suit.

Finding the cheapest and most efficient labor has always been one of the key ingredients of success in manufacturing, so if Foxconn is aiming to replace or augment its workforce with a roughly equivalent number of machines in just three years, it’s a good indicator that the world as a whole may be moving in that direction. We’ve certainly seen many examples of modern factories where automation has removed a great majority of human workers from the floor, and even cheap labor markets will often see machines and humans working side by side to increase efficiency. As Foxconn follows through on their three year plan, they’ll give the world insight into the best ratio of man to machine to optimize production. Foxconn may add 1 million robots, but still keep the majority of its large human workforce and use the massive increase in output to keep up with the equally massive global demand for cheap electronics.

Yet whatever ratio of human/robot labor Foxconn adopts, you can bet that in the long run the percentage of people in production is only going to decline. As machines become more sophisticated, and associated costs of humans (medical expenses, lawsuits, etc) continue to rise, robots will make more sense for a great many repetitive tasks. In essence, the world’s largest electronics manufacturer may have essentially declared the beginning of the end for human labor in the factory.

What will that mean in the years ahead? It’s possible, as US robot makers have maintained recently, that the shift towards automation will bring employment back to post-industrial nations in the form of higher-end jobs. It’s also possible (perhaps likely) that citizens may struggle during the transition from human to robot labor even as economies thrive, leading us to more “jobless recoveries”. Martin Ford, in his book The Lights in the Tunnel, argues that the move to a robot based economy will ultimately require enormous shifts in government and economics as the majority of humanity no longer performs what could be traditionally called ‘work’.

All of that, however, is purely speculation. What is certain is that Foxconn will do everything in its power to keep providing cheaper electronics to the world’s leading brands. In the near term, that just means more inexpensive computers and mobile phones. Hopefully, however, this announcement will fuel a more public and substantive debate on the importance of automation. Media coverage in traditional news outlets has been disappointingly short sighted and uninspiring when it comes to facing the (possible) crisis that global adoption of automation may create. This is a topic that effects us all. While factories were among the first to become automated, law firms, news agencies, call centers, and dozens of other industries will soon be replacing/augmenting human labor with AI software. We need to be asking ourselves tough questions: How do we make that transition as painless as possible? What can we do now to lay down the foundation for future generations where the majority of work is automated? Where should we invest our capital to ensure the best returns when robots finally rule the world?

…if you have an answer to the last one, let me know.

[video credit: IDG News]
[source: Xinhua Net]