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To: Father Terrence who wrote (13681)	11/19/1997 12:11:00 AM
From: JF Quinnelly	Respond to of 108807

No attempt to evade anything, Terry. If Johnny doesn't understand the role of epistemology it isn't my problem. I'd suggest you all read FA Hayek's The Counter-Revolution of Science: Studies on the Abuse of Reason to clear up your misunderstanding of the nature and limits of scientific reasoning. Epistemology deals with first principles, not with physical evidence. Debates over the existence of a creator are in the realm of first principles. The tools of epistemology have little or nothing to do with measurement and quanitification, which are the tools of science. Any text on scientific method will tell you as much, it's nothing to do with mysticism.

To: Father Terrence who wrote (13681)	11/19/1997 1:05:00 AM
From: JF Quinnelly	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

Know that the proper forum to ESTABLISH the 'existence of anything' is science Just to illustrate one problem with your argument, let's see you use science to "prove the existence" of logic. You can't, because science doesn't deal with transcendentals like logic, and instead has to assume them and use them as tools. The only argument available to Positivism or Scientism is to deny the real existence of transcendentals, such as logic. Do you want to sign on to that? Science encounters Goedel's theorem, and can never be self-contained and self-defining. There are no closed systems.