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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 10:20:33 AM
From: locogringo5 Recommendations  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 224718
 
You have FAILED to provide a link to your invalid OPINION stated as a FACT, and then attempt to turn the point around in my lap, which is so typical of Liberal BS.

You have FAILED to demonstrate your talking point, and that results in jorj having the valid argument.

Will you be leaving us now for threads where intelligence is not required?



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 10:32:16 AM
From: Sedohr Nod7 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224718
 
What kind of a study do you have showing that everybody is not gaming the system?

My six month pregnant daughter went to the doctor yesterday for the first time during this carry.......first they wanted her to come in every two weeks....she said "No.".......Then it was come in every month.....Again "No" was the answer.....they wanted to know why not since they assumed they had medicare or whatever the hell it's called.....Again she said "No, she didn't have that".......When she explained that they made too much money to qualify for the freebees, they vaulted automatically into the well then you can afford to come in more often mode......She made it clear that she had a pretty good idea on when she needed to see the doctor and also when to spend "HER" money.......Her impression was that the whole crew at the doctors office couldn't quite make out the difference on which pocket the money came out of.

Lots of folks are gaming the system.....it has become a national past time for many.



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 10:38:00 AM
From: JakeStraw1 Recommendation  Respond to of 224718
 
>>Do you have a link to a reputable study proving that millions are gaming the system?

Look no further than the Federal Government...



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 11:52:12 AM
From: lorne4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224718
 
sidney..."Do you have a link to a reputable study proving that millions are gaming the system? No you don't because it's something someone made up! It's talk show hysteria."...

Don't know if this is a obama/democrat sanctioned web site but I sure you will come to your own conclusions...not exactly a study either.



Welfare aid cards valid at casinos
State-issued debit cards work at some gaming floor ATMs. Officials vow cutoff.
June 24, 2010|
Jack Dolan
articles.latimes.com


California welfare recipients are able to use state-issued debit cards to withdraw cash on gaming floors in more than half of the casinos in the state, a Los Angeles Times review of records found.

The cards, provided by the Department of Social Services to help recipients feed and clothe their families, work in automated teller machines at 32 of 58 tribal casinos and 47 of 90 state-licensed poker rooms, the review found.

State officials said Wednesday they were working to determine how much money had been withdrawn from casino ATMs by people using the welfare debit cards.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who learned of the issue when asked to comment for this story, promised to take immediate action.

"We have instructed our vendors to prohibit these cards from being accepted at ATMs located in casinos and card rooms," Schwarzenegger spokesman Aaron McLear said Wednesday. "It is reprehensible that anyone would use taxpayer money for anything other than its intended purpose."

Administration officials said the social services agency contracts with a private ATM network to handle the electronic transfer of benefits to people on welfare, and hadn't noticed that the taxpayer money was being withdrawn at gambling establishments.

McLear said the system of paying out welfare benefits via bank cards was created under Schwarzenegger's predecessor, Democrat Gray Davis.

Since the late 1990s most states have adopted this system, which is a viewed as a more efficient way of distributing and tracking government aid.

Schwarzenegger has been wrangling with lawmakers over other efforts to combat waste and fraud in the state's social services programs. He fought back a legislative effort to discontinue fingerprinting of food stamp recipients, a system designed to prevent double-dipping and other abuses.

Casino ATMs account for a handful of the thousands of machines in the contractor's network, and the amount withdrawn from them by welfare recipients almost certainly would comprise a tiny fraction of the state's multibillion-dollar welfare spending. But the issue is likely to come up as lawmakers fight over how best to close their historic budget deficit.

Schwarzenegger had already threatened to eliminate the state welfare program in his May budget proposal, and that was before he and his Republican allies in the Legislature knew that the cash could be accessed by people strolling from poker games to blackjack tables.

"In a time when we have a $19-billion deficit, and we're taking a serious look at the future of many safety-net programs, it's appalling to think that welfare beneficiaries can use their cards in a casino," said Seth Unger, spokesman for the Assembly Republican Caucus.

Democratic leaders, who have vowed to protect the state's fraying social safety net, also began calling for reform Wednesday.

"In these tough times, when so many children and vulnerable families depend on the safety net, we have to make sure food stamps and other services are being used the way the people of California intended them to be," said Shannon Murphy, spokeswoman for Assembly Speaker John A. Perez (D-Los Angeles). "Other states have closed this loophole, and the Assembly will work with the Schwarzenegger administration to make that happen."

The casinos are listed on a Department of Social Services website that allows welfare recipients to search for addresses of ATMs where they can withdraw cash provided under the Temporary Aid for Needy Families program. The monthly grant ranges up to $694; most of the ATMs impose a withdrawal limit of about $300 per day.




To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 11:53:30 AM
From: lorne5 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224718
 
sidney...and there is this on welfare.

Shocking Video Reveals Vulnerability to Fraud within Maine’s Welfare System
By Chris Cinquemani ·
August 11, 2011 ·
mainepolicy.org



Featured, Health Care, Open Government, Press Releases ·
DHHS Worker: “If you don’t have proof of income, then you have no income”
An outside investigation into Maine’s Medicaid system reveals a shocking potential for fraud within Maine’s vast welfare bureaucracy, and it’s all on video. Yet policy reforms to increase accountability and safeguard measures will help protect Maine’s welfare system from fraud, if officials act soon.

The Maine Heritage Policy Center (MHPC) and Americans for Prosperity-Maine (AFP) held a joint press conference in Augusta today, where the groups showed footage from a video-recorded interaction earlier this year between a Department of Health and Human Services employee at the Biddeford office, and an individual posing as a “pharmaceutical” importer seeking free, taxpayer-funded Medicaid health coverage.

The individual, who posed as a Mr. Ted Ceanneidigh, revealed the following to the DHHS worker:

•He has access to enough money to buy private health insurance
•He drives a Corvette
•His parent are unaware he has turned their failing fishing business into a “pharmaceutical imports” business that does its dealings in international waters
•His business card prominently features a marijuana leaf
•His income is strictly in cash and precious metals, because metals are “less traceable.”
•He has no pay stubs and none of his income is declared
After learning this information, the DHHS employee advised the individual to keep his income hidden.

“You don’t have a paycheck, you don’t file taxes, you have no income,” the employee said.

Applicants for Medicaid must earn below a certain level of income to qualify for the free taxpayer-funded health coverage.

“How many Ted Ceanneidighs out there were advised by DHHS workers to hide their income? How many were never reported for suspected drug dealing? How many Ted Ceanneidighs are receiving taxpayer-funded health care today because of unethical practices within Maine’s welfare bureaucracy?” AFP-Maine State Director Carol Weston asked at the press conference.

The explosive details in the video demonstrate the vulnerability of the welfare system to fraud and abuse, which may contribute to the growth in enrollment and cost for Maine’s welfare programs. Today, almost one in three Mainers is on some form of welfare, and the state spent more than $2.5 billion on its welfare system in 2008 alone.

“Maine spends billions on its welfare system. Is this potentially illegal behavior what those billions are funding?” Weston asked.

Prior to the press conference, Weston and MHPC chief executive officer Lance Dutson met with the Commissioner of Health and Human Services and staff from the Governor’s office to show them the video, and to discuss potential reforms to safeguard Maine’s welfare system from fraud and abuse.

MHPC has specifically suggested the creation of a divergence program that helps potential applicants find work or job training while making welfare benefits a last resort, establishing a Secret Shopper-type program to monitor the performance and practices of DHHS employees, and lifetime bans from receiving benefits and working in state government for applicants and employees, respectively, who are found to have knowingly engaged in fraudulent or illegal behavior.

“I hope that what we have revealed today motivates action from officials in all branches of our government. Our system is clearly vulnerable to fraud and abuse, and we can no longer pretend these things only happen in other states,” Dutson said.

“I have shared our reform ideas with the Commissioner of Health and Human Services and members of the Governor’s staff at our meeting this morning,” Dutson continued. “I have also pledged the full support of The Maine Heritage Policy Center to develop and promote welfare system reforms that root out fraud, waste and abuse, while preserving our safety net for those in need. Action must be taken.”




To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 11:54:31 AM
From: lorne4 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224718
 
sidney...and this...

Gaming the Welfare System: Poor by Choice
talk.baltimoresun.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Gaming the system means using the rules, policies and procedures of a system against itself for purposes outside what these rules were intended for. This often means using systems for personal gain that were intended to serve an organization's interests. According to James Rieley, structures in organisations (both explicit and implicit policies and procedures, stated goals, and mental models) drive behaviours that are detrimental to long-term organisational success."


If a person wants to game the welfare system, it is a whole lot easier if they have little or no income or wealth.

The less you have, the more you get.
There is a strong incentive for gamers to be poor, or at least appear poor.

The hard core gamer will have income that is not reported, but that is not necessary.

With a little creativity, a person can tell the eligibility man the truth (or nearly so), and get lots of free stuff.

Most welfare programs do not require the custodial parent to file for child support against the absent parent. The custodial parent is free to get benefits from the absent parent, that are not countable for eligibility. What we might compare to non-taxable in come.
Many applicants withdraw application for programs that require filing for child support, and not without reason. I’m not talking about claiming ‘good cause’, as there are mechanisms for that.

Grandparents take in their grandchildren, and qualify for extra benefits, and they are not required to file against the parent. Aunts and uncles can do the same thing.
Having children is a ‘get it for free’ ploy, and children are often used as cash cows not only by the actual parents, but by relatives as well.

Currently there is very little penalty for people who refuse or voluntarily terminate employment.
I can understand that in bad times finding work may be hard, but it seems to me that once work has been found, it is reasonable to expect a person to be inconvenienced in order to retain employment.

Two parents can both quit their jobs to take care of their only child, and benefits are increased.
It seems that for poor people, it is unreasonable to expect one parent or the other to provide child care, while the other works.

Many programs do not count against other benefits.
For example: Two families both get food stamps, everything is the same, EXCEPT, one gets free housing, the other pays $500/mo rent. Food Stamps and medical assistance benefits will be the same, the free renter loses nothing, the family that pays $500/mo rent gains nothing.
Great gaming opportunity.

People who have no visible means of support, can live with other family members (often parents) or friends, who provide all of their needs, EXCEPT food, which is expected to be furnished by the taxpayers.

Zero income food stamps ($200 for one person) for years, repeat, years. And no one expects their enablers to have any responsibility.
I say, let the head of household apply for benefits, and include the freeloader to get food for him/her.

There are many ways to game the welfare system, but these three are at the top of my list for easy fixes.

1) Require filing for child support a requirement for all social service programs (with mmechinisms for ‘good cause’ due to abuse/threats, and then punish the abuser.

2) Have reasonable requirements for seeking and retaining employment. Lose of benefits who do not comply. In times past this was strictly enforced. Now, for some reason, retaining employment is less important. I don’t get it.

3)If others provide your soap, toilet paper, bad habit needs, transportation, bedding, roof, heat, let them provide your food, or apply for benefits for the complete household. In times past this was common and strictly enforced.

~ ~ ~

Many people are perfectly comfortable being poor.
They have not bought any clothing at a store in years. Handouts, and yard sales do just fine.

They have not paid for any cleaining supplies (read: shampoo, soap, toilet paper) in many years.

They have not paid any rent for years.

They have not worked for hire in many years. Truthfully, most of them have hired themseves out for cash under the table, and probably earn $100 or more every month, they just don't tell social services. Yes, it's fraud, but mearly impossible to prove.

A very large percentage of the caseload for social srvices have per capita income of less than $500/mo, $6000/year, $24k for a family of 4.
And they have determined that they are comfortable enough, so that work is not necessary.


They made that decision, not me.
When I say they are comfortable, that in no way implies I would be comfortable. Maybe that's why I work.

If they are not comfortable, let them flip burgers.
There is certainly less honorable employment.

~ ~ ~
On the social service roles are people who have no education, but seem to always find work. They can't keep a job long, but they are not long without a job.

And then there are the ones who have been looking for years, and years, and they just cannot find work (and we do mention fast food. . .still no jobs available).



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (111361)8/26/2011 1:04:15 PM
From: locogringo  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224718
 
This guy might have a link to more professional scammers. Ask him.

Message 27567222