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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (172268)	9/19/2011 12:57:17 PM
From: Steve Lokness	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542771

<<<<<but could be employed, spending dollars, increasing demand. >>>>> Yup, I agree with you here. the key being "employed". IOW. productive. But that is but a tiny portion of what Krugman seems to want. Krugman and Bernanke want to flood the economy dropping money from helicopters to get people to spend. Getting people employed - like we all want - does increase demand. But to depend on the government to provide this demand has become - not might, but has - become a habit, an addiction, that we can't break free of. Every spending idea from government doesn't provide good stimulus and I believe if Keynes were here today - and took into account the changes that have taken place since he was here - that he would be the first to change his ideas. When I say addiction, I mean we never get to correct the inefficiencies in our economy. Since we can't break the neck of these efficiencies they continue to become additive.

To: JohnM who wrote (172268)	9/19/2011 1:12:20 PM
From: Steve Lokness	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 542771

John, I wanted to comment on Europe separately; <<<<<In Europe, troubled nations like Greece and Ireland have imposed savage cuts, even as stronger nations have imposed milder austerity programs of their own.>>>>>> I am in a class that has been looking at the Norwegian economy and how they see economics differently. You would like Norway as they are very socialistic leaning. They really have safety nets. But they have something else that isn't so obvious. They have a different way of looking at the economy. They think you should have money first and then borrow from that. IOW's don't go into debt. Now I know that Norway has lots of oil and that doesn't hurt, but they only spend 4% of their total oil profits on their country. The rest goes into a savings account!!! Norway still has high taxes even though they have high oil revenue. Can you imagine doing that here? We instead borrow money to go after the oil, spend all the profits immediately and wonder why there is a money problem when oil gets tight. (insert Wharfs thinking here). Reckless borrowing has seldom if ever been healthy for an economy in the long run - whereas fiscal conservative spending countries have suffered the least when harsh times come..........Greece is on the one extreme - Norway is on the other.

To: JohnM who wrote (172268)	9/19/2011 3:53:19 PM
From: koan	Respond to of 542771

Krugman has somewhere on his blog, a chart and description that shows how we got out of the big depression using Keynesian economics. How the full employment helped people pay off debt, build new companies, stimulate consumer demand and eventually pay enough taxes to pay back the government stimulus of the 30's and WWII. I have studied the chart in the past and it is a pretty clear map. Haven't been able to find it lately, but it is there I am sure, just my inability to navigate his library.