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Pastimes : Metaphysics and Spiritual Practices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (192)	11/19/1997 3:29:00 PM
From: Harmattan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 650

that is more like it Jane, i love that combativeness in you. how dare you leave just when we may be beginning to uncover nerve endings. all the endless meaningless dribble is foreplay, a feeling each other out, a defining of terms and biases. its seeming aimlessness serves a critical function in paving the road toward real talk about real issues. From your study of mediaeval times you should be highly aware of the elaborate structure of meaningless preamble that precedes discussion of the issue at hand; right from the Royals on down to the common folk. I recall, from my childhood in another culture, my endless impatience as my father, with me in tow, would transact business. For example, something as simple as buying groceries at the local market; my dad and the proprietor would babble inanities sometimes for an hour before they would talk price on some vegtables. And if you needed some official to stamp a permit or cut through red tape an entire day can be spent before even mentioning the permit. In planning travel itineries whole extra days must be scheduled that serve no purpose other than to talk endlessly and meaninglessly by way of greetings to officials as we pass through their villages. So what is the meaning of our "meaningless dribble"? Perhaps it is a simple exersize in patience (a most profound spiritual practice and lesson for the impatient ego); maybe it is a human artifice that God uses to highlight and curtail the initiatives of that in us which is willful. Perhaps in our haste to pursue "spiritual" lessons we overlook and neglect the value to be found in the mundane. In any event, as Carol gently reminded me, all the words and the thoughts behind them, wheather implicit or explicit, are revealing one way or another. On a more personal level your aim is deadly accurate. What I say is meaningless and I am more shallow than even you think. I take your words to heart. SI as a medium is a paragon. Communicating through it is at once both a metaphor and the reality. Intentional perseverance will bear fruit. "...knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope." (Romans 5: 3-4) with equally deep fondness Grace, ghunk

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (192)	11/19/1997 10:57:00 PM
From: Carol	Respond to of 650

My dear Jane, why are you upset? Because ghunk didn't respond to you in the manner in which you wanted him too!! You should have learned by now that hardly anything in life happens the way we want it to, especially not where other people are concerned.. And most times its for the very best... Please, don't be trying to push your beliefs on others, I respect yours, as I'm sure ghunk does, so please respect ours. It's up to you to accept the people on the thread, whatever their belief system, though it may be different from your own...Do you think you might learn something from them? You are very difficult to understand sometimes, it is true. Isn't the purpose of an education to learn so you can teach others, or at the very least to express thoughts so others might understand, not to obscure knowledge in a cloud of abstracted and expressionist thinking... Just some thoughts, Jane, not to offend, maybe to help.. Regards Carol

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (192)	11/19/1997 11:08:00 PM
From: Carol	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 650

Jane, me again... Just a comment on SNL and the Mike Myers skit... When "she" "he" waved the hanky at her guests and then clutched her bosom and quavered in her German accent, "discuss, discuss" I'm ver klimpk (I'm sure that is not spelled properly, as my german is nil) it was so funny. A person would have to see it to realize the pure comedy in those actions... I do forget what the name of that character was now, but I enjoyed it tremendously... Later Carol

To: Jane Hafker who wrote (192)	11/20/1997 1:52:00 AM
From: Yorikke	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 650

Jane of Grace, I have read and reread your message, and I am afraid I can come up with nothing positive about it. But you have gone from us now, risen, as it were, above the fray, leaving us here, poor creatures that we are, to toil in our miseries. Such pitiful beings who can not hear the clear pronunciations of the woman of Grace. What coupon Jane? What did you leave us, or me for I can only speak of me, that is more than soft fuzzy warm ways of saying demeaning things to me and my spirit bretheren? Ahh but you know and I don't, never have, at least That way....can not for the life of me see anyway out of here other than down deep into the heart of the misery. Is this helll? Ooooohh don't we make our own...live in out own, are are own....Oh that I can attest to....I am my own hell, knower of my own hell, builder of my own lost land of a vagrant soul that will never find the peace that has visited you, don't ever let me forget that . Come back some time and remind me, please ..... I'll still be here in this land that I created waiting to pass it off to the next poor devil like myself...to care for some more...Lost land of poor souls that have not the guts to face the fact of the one roll to salavation. So we pradle hear, each knowing the seperate path we must take, each keenly aware of the Right, each understanding our own fates yet we are damned, lost, for we can not, have not, perhaps will never, have the courage to listen to our own hearts...And we will die, our last breaths gasping...wondering what happened, why we never did what we knew was right........rather we were dead at 22 then living through this. I have torn the fiiking laundramat apart and I can find no coupon....Jane........just another pretty bauble you dangle before us? God save us all, and you too Jane. mnmuench