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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (172766)	9/27/2011 7:47:37 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 543985

Come on man, that is not what Krugman is saying and he certainly is not lying. I have never caught Krugman in a lie. I follow Krugman very carefully, and he said over and over and over and over, the stimulus is not large enough, won't work and there wil not be the politcal will to go back for a second stimulus. What you should be saying is: "damn, Krugman was right on, and predicted this whole thing exactly". Because he predicted it exactly. Obama, IMO, did not hire Krugman or Stiglitz precisely because they were considered loose cannons i.e. they cannot be controlled and would have been all over the banks and right wingers and all the crap that the right wing and Wall street have been pulling and that was/is not Obama style. He likes to play nice. Krugman and Stiglitz would have told it like it is and that is not considered politic. Obama blew off the two top democratic economists in the world and he and the country are paying for it now. << <<<<<And what the facts say is that Keynesian policy didn’t fail, because it wasn’t tried.>>>>> Oh John, Krugman's not being honest here. You can argue that not enough Keynisian spending was tried - but to say "it wasn't tried" is nonsense IMHO. So what is Keynesian economics; <<<<*What Does Keynesian Economics* Mean?** An economic theory stating that active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy is the best method of ensuring economic growth and stability. >>>>>> Oh my gosh, Krugman is arguing the government hasn't intervened? Nonsense!

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (172766)	9/27/2011 8:28:56 PM
From: koan	Respond to of 543985

Steve, guys like Krugman and Einstein and Bertrand Russell don't lie about academics. They are so smart and so knowledgable they spend their entire lives trying to get people to understand what they are talking about. They don't need to lie. They are operating so far over everyones head they are foucused on either trying figure shit out or trying to explain the shit they figured out to people. And they are forever frustrated because so many people misinterpret what they are saying as lies, or crazy or are pissed off at them for being blasphemous-lol.

To: Steve Lokness who wrote (172766)	9/28/2011 12:08:11 AM
From: JohnM	Respond to of 543985

Greetings, Steve. I read Krugman as arguing that Keynesianism had not been tried as meaning not enough was put into the stimulus. And that he, Krugman, and others like him, had warned that was the case. I don't recall whether he argued that it had worked, sort of, by limiting the descent into a more serious recession. But Keynesiansim in the sense of what's usually meant, that was not tried. Romer argued for it within the administration (Suskind makes this point repeatedly) and lots of folk outside. But the internal dynamics that meant the Summers/Geithner lesser approach won out and then was further cut via congressional negotiations, was the telling blow. So Krugman is definitely not arguing the government didn't intervene; just that something that could legitimately be called a "Keynesian" intervention did not occur. As for the wikipedia quote about Keynesianism, that's really only a starter. It's fairly complicated. I'll get back to you after I've read that section in the very large biography that I've started. The problem is some other books have jumped to the front of the list.