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Technology Stocks : Apple Inc. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChrisGillette who wrote (121974)	11/14/2011 11:08:01 PM
From: Cogito	2 Recommendations Respond to of 213172

>>I believe that Apple's value is the second highest in the world, second only to Exxon Mobil. On its face, this is ridiculous.<< To flatly state that it's ridiculous is not to prove the point. Why should Apple, as an enterprise, be worth less than other companies? Apple's valuation relates directly to their consistent profitability. The Price/Sales ratio is very reasonable. The P/E ratio is reasonable. The company has no debt, and significant cash. They have amazing positive cash flow. Please explain how Apple is overvalued. Which of the metrics by which a company is valued is off, in Apple's case?

To: ChrisGillette who wrote (121974)	11/14/2011 11:39:35 PM
From: slacker711	3 Recommendations Respond to of 213172

Exxon generates $70 billion EBITDA per year. And because Exxon supplies a necessity product, its EBITDA should be pretty stable. Apple generates half of Exxon's EBITDA and its cash flows aren't nearly as stable. I think you are cherry picking stats here. EBITDA might be a nice metric for comps in the oil industry but it is useless as a comparison across industries. How about repeating the exercise using GAAP earnings or cash flow....and then factor in the relative growth rates and tell us what multiple ex-cash you think Apple should be trading at. I would be curious about your answers. Slacker

To: ChrisGillette who wrote (121974)	11/14/2011 11:45:28 PM
From: Sr K	1 Recommendation Respond to of 213172

If you are long and sold covered LEAPs expiring Jan 2014, that's a very meager protection (less than 3% per year) for 26+ months. If you are not long, what's the margin requirement to carry that position for so long? Is it the minimum $2.50 per contract because it's $220 out of the money? From Yahoo Finance, the companies are closer in ttm results than you suggest. Apple had $35B EBITDA (Apple $35B less) but Exxon has more D and A. Does Exxon have as low a tax rate as Apple? Apple Operating Cash Flow (ttm): 37.53B ..... Compared to 57.65B for Exxon (Apple $20B less) Levered Free Cash Flow (ttm): 19.75B ..... Compared to 20.19B for Exxon (Apple $.44B less)

To: ChrisGillette who wrote (121974)	11/15/2011 5:27:53 AM
From: NAG1	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 213172

Chris, Too busy to do the research on xom and since I am not invested in oil stocks, I can't say I know much about them. But just looking up xom earnings quickly, while good, they have been all over the place the past several years and seem highly dependent on the price of oil which has been highly speculative and also dependent on politics both here and abroad. So i am not sure how to really value xom. For Apple, the quick answer for my valuation is 15X earnings(even though it has been growing faster than that for the past several years) which look like they should hit at least $30 a share soon plus about $80 per share in cash. If the market should happen to give Apple a pe of 20 based on future growth prospects and/or Apple's future earnings grow to $40 a share, a much higher price is obtainable IMO. I am not sure what enterprise value is or how to calculate it so maybe you could educate me as to your figures for Apple. Neal

To: ChrisGillette who wrote (121974)	11/15/2011 11:14:14 AM
From: Doren	1 Recommendation Respond to of 213172

Chris, not to gang up but another view. Apple has a P/E of 14 today, if you take out the cash part of that its below 10 I think. Now think about this: China, the largest consumer economy in the world, (more SUVs are sold in China than the US), is relatively untouched by Apple products. The Chinese seem to love Apple products as prestige items so Apple is poised to expand rapidly in China as are all smart phone companies. Even if Apple was not selling boat loads of iPads and iPhones they have been expanding their share of computers unlike almost all other computer companies. And lastly Apple products are sticky. Once hooked few people switch back to competitors, on the contrary the reverse is true.