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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (18725)	12/22/2011 1:05:15 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 69300

You are wrong on Socrates. So you must submit to authority at all times? I accept Rand ahead of Romans 13. Message 26099636 Romans 13: Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

To: koan who wrote (18725)	12/22/2011 1:12:59 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 69300

Socrates was old and prepared to die having entered the court. He did not view his death as anything but a blessing - either to enter a deep sleep or to meet heros of olden times. I guess you know too much to ever read about it. However, here it is for you again the Taylor translation. Message 27830584

To: koan who wrote (18725)	12/23/2011 10:55:17 AM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

Would you and Solon stop having actual interesting and civil discourse??? You two will ruin the thread!! LOL DAK

To: koan who wrote (18725)	12/28/2011 8:22:17 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

"You are misunderstanding socrates. He drank the hemlock "willingly" because he thought the social contract was more important than anything, even his innocence. Rand would have rejected that idea in spades as it is antithetical to her philosophy. Socrates and rand had antithetical philosophies." That would be irrelevant. The point being made about Socrates was that Socrates (and Plato) both considered it in the same light as Ayn Rand. They considered democracy to be inferior and dangerous. "From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert results from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." James Madison