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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Giordano Bruno who wrote (20837)	2/6/2012 11:19:08 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees."[ The point, therefore is: WHY QUIBBLE? Both think the idea of god is "naive" and "childlike". Einstein was a HUMANIST. As he said...to a Priest he would be an ATHEIST. "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own—a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." [22] "A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it undergoes. Science has therefore been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death. It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees." [ You are angry at Maher--not for his message--but for how it is delivered. Einstein did not make his living off satire so had no need for grandstanding or proselytization. Do you see the difference? Einstein also thinks Yahweh is utter nonsense--which of course it is. But Einstein was a prominent member of a culture which was built on religious fundamentalism AND he was an elder statesman for HUMANITY--writ large. So yes...Maher does not compare to him. Neither do you and neither do I. So relax. In knowing that the fawning and blubbering of ANY of the sheep in any of the sects is delusional fluff, I find myself in good company--because that is EXACTLY what Einstein thought of religion! The awe and wonder and humility that characterised Einstein's gestalt has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY RELIGION. I am sure Einstein's disappointment in his fellow man was discouraging and heart wrenching. He did not however have the character to satirize and poke fun as a way of demonstrating the absurdity of it all. Everyone has their own path and their own way and their own circumstances. People who follow the myths of Yahweh ARE like naive children--just as Einstein pointed out. And these naive children have done much damage throughout history. And they are currently fighting to turn back womens rights to their body. And they are threatening to destroy Science in the schools. And they are threatening to dispense with Human Rights and Freedoms in favor of political government run by a Supernatural Commander in Chief where (as always)...ANYTHING GOES. Do you want America to be like Iran?? If a bit of satire could help prevent that do you think that is something you might be interested in learning about??

To: Giordano Bruno who wrote (20837)	2/6/2012 1:56:34 PM
From: Cautious_Optimist	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

Einstein was a materialist. His nuanced words were often seized by ideologues to prove a point. Like Andy Rooney and George Carlin, many urban myths and stories have circulated about his beliefs; see snopes or just google him. Einstein felt the universe and the laws that guided it were knowable. It was his childlike awe and wonder of that process, that was probably the seed of the anti-atheist messages, virtual revisionism, and Religion Inc's investment in a branding association. This is also from your link, and is very telling: Einstein was raised by secular Jewish parents. In his Autobiographical Notes, Einstein wrote that he had gradually lost his faith early in childhood: . . . I came—though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. Mistrust of every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude toward the convictions that were alive in any specific social environment—an attitude that has never again left me, even though, later on, it has been tempered by a better insight into the causal connections. It is quite clear to me that the religious paradise of youth, which was thus lost, was a first attempt to free myself from the chains of the 'merely personal,' from an existence dominated by wishes, hopes, and primitive feelings. Out yonder there was this huge world, which exists independently of us human beings and which stands before us like a great, eternal riddle, at least partially accessible to our inspection and thinking. The contemplation of this world beckoned as a liberation, and I soon noticed that many a man whom I had learned to esteem and to admire had found inner freedom and security in its pursuit. The mental grasp of this extra-personal world within the frame of our capabilities presented itself to my mind, half consciously, half unconsciously, as a supreme goal. Similarly motivated men of the present and of the past, as well as the insights they had achieved, were the friends who could not be lost. The road to this paradise was not as comfortable and alluring as the road to the religious paradise; but it has shown itself reliable, and I have never regretted having chosen it. [2]