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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (13787)	11/23/1997 12:43:00 AM
From: JF Quinnelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Christine, I'll leave the accusations of myopia and ignoring facts to you. As far as Celtic corpses, dead men tell no tales. We know what we do about the Celtic religion from the observations of those who left us a written record, primarily the Greeks. No one who was an initiate into the Druidic priesthood ever left a written record. As for the Old Irish, the book on the Celts I cited states that it was developed late, and was suitable only for grave markers and as mnemonic devices. The Irish relied on oral transmission. It was the Christian monk Patrick who recorded much of what we now have. I never said anything about Celts wearing plaids and ornate jewelry, so that particular rant of yours is especially pointless. I have just ordered an encyclopedia of Celtic stories and poems. It would seem strange that such scholarly works might be fiction!!! Well, won't it be nice when you actually get a chance to read them. But so what? They aren't the detailed religious beliefs of the Celts, they are tales and poems. You still can't locate a single source from historic Celtic sources that gives the slightest credibility to the ridiculous fantasties of modern suburban "neo-pagans". I hope you have finally come to understand that Satanism, and Satanic beliefs, cults, etc. have absolutely nothing to to with wicca, and are in fact the dark offshoot of Christianity. Well, since I have never equated "Satanism" with Wicca or the old European religions, I can only congratulate you on another red-herring argument. Maybe you will come to understand that you have to address the arguments that people actually make, and not invent straw-men. Can you point out in Starhawk's tract something which is evil? Who cares if it is "evil"? It's silly and foolish, and that's enough. This is a mostly Christian society, and there is domestic violence in 50% of relationships, mostly inflicted by males. Look up "non-sequitor". Your continual reference to one minister who saved a few women from death in Salem obscures the reality for many thousands more in Europe. Salem is not only the best known witch-trial in America, it is the only witch-trial in American history. And instead of being promulgated by the church, as you tell it, it turns out that the witch-hunting was stopped by the pastor of Salem. As far as the witch-hunting in Europe, it is significant that it only happened in the western, Latin-speaking part of Christendom. None of the lands of eastern Roman Empire, Byzantium, participated in it. Which is one of the indications that witch-hunting built on the older superstitions that were prevalent in the west. Hakeem is a sociologist whose doctoral thesis was on whether or not you could predict parole outcomes based on studies, criteria, etc. Not exactly the history of Christianity, which is obvious in what he writes. He selects various incidents over a two-thousand year history to weave a tendentious "history", not unlike The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's just special pleading, more in the realm of hate-mongering than history.

To: Grainne who wrote (13787)	11/24/1997 11:21:00 AM
From: O'Hara	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

><>...Christine...><> "I hope you have finally come to understand that Satanism, and Satanic beliefs, cults, etc. have absolutely nothing to to with wicca," They have everythig to do with wicca.... "and are in fact the dark offshoot of Christianity". Darkness is not of Christ or crhistianity...It has no place in either. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. If there is darkness Christine it is not Christianity But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. ------------ ------------ "This is a mostly Christian society, and there is domestic violence in 50% of relationships, mostly inflicted by males". So is this where your hate for christians arise from?...It's no wonder Or did it start much younger?...none of my business, need not answer. Males but not certainly followers of Christ.! Therefore not christians!....Church attendance is not a sign of Christianity, and neither is just being born of christian parents, or attending christian schools, or bieng married in a christian church, or having your children baptized, or christined. Just traditions....just traditions....Not even reading or knowing the Bible qualifies one as a Christian, many pagans and other anti chriatians do that! Following Christ and applying His teachings to our very lives is what a christian does!~ You will know them by their fruits! This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: Shalom...><> BTW where do you get your stats?