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Politics : Mainstream Politics and Economics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (13924)	3/28/2012 3:54:34 PM
From: Broken_Clock	1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 85487

thesmokinggun.com when does this become a "teachable" moment for Obama?

To: koan who wrote (13924)	3/28/2012 4:21:11 PM
From: sm1th	3 Recommendations Respond to of 85487

Really, that is your solution. yes the bigger a govt is, the more corrupt it will be, unavoidable human nature. I am not suggesting no govt, that is anarchy. Just the minimal level, with all functions pushed to the lowest possible level. Minimal fed govt, state govts would need to be bigger in some areas due to delegation from feds, but could be smaller in others. Push as much as possible to the county/town level. Local govt is more visible and more accountable. If one of my town officials were corrupt, I could probably organize some neighbors and drive them from office. To unseat my totally useless senior Senator John Kerry it would take at least $50M, and likely wouldn't succeed.

To: koan who wrote (13924)	3/28/2012 5:04:14 PM
From: Little Joe	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 85487

<< The only way to end it is to make the prize less valuable. If the govt didn't have so many goodies to give away, corporations, unions and individuals wouldn't spend the effort. A Congressman that can't deliver isn't worth owning.>> "Really, that is your solution" it is amazing to me that despite all of your philosphizing, seeking the truth and wanting to engage in thoughtful discussion, that you obviously do not see the merit of the idea. lj

To: koan who wrote (13924)	3/28/2012 5:54:25 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 85487

This was probably solved by the application of caring moral intuition by early enlightened progressives, eh? Quotation of the Day… … is about Europe in the 14th & 15th centuries; it’s from pages 244-245 of Will Durant’s 1957 volume The Reformation: Social and individual hygiene hardly kept pace with the advances of medicine. Personal cleanliness was not a fetish; even the King of England bathed only once a week, and sometimes skipped…. In all Europe – not always excepting the aristocracy – the same article of clothing was worn for months, or years, or generations. Many cities had a water supply, but it reached only a few homes; most families had to fetch water from the nearest fountain, well, or spring. The air of London was befouled by the odor of slaughtered cattle, till such carnage was forbidden in 1371. The smell of latrines detracted from the idyllic fantasies of rural life. London tenements had but one latrine for all occupants; many houses had none at all, and emptied their ordure into the yards or streets. Thousands of privies poured into the Thames; a city ordinance of 1357 denounced this, but the practice continued.

To: koan who wrote (13924)

3/28/2012 6:24:35 PM

From: average joe

Respond to of 85487

I give you credit for openly admitting how corrupt democrats are over at the ban em all thread.

I recall you were banned there until epicure let you slink back in...

Message 28041116

To: epicure who wrote (186072)	3/27/2012 8:16:12 PM
From: koan

The decision to question ones own, is a tough one. And not one many of we liberals take lightly. It is sort of like the abortion problem. It is a dilemma. All people can do is make a decision.

I was confronted with that dilemma up here for 30 years. We dems are in a minority, but we managed to get more than our fair share of Dem governors up here for no other reason than the right wing ran true winguts even conservatives could not stand. I worked on most Dem campaigns.

One such guy was a Dem I worked to elect Steve Cowper. They called him the High Plains Drifter. The state employee's union worked their asses off to get him elected. Were in fact responsible for his election.

But right after he was elected he turned on the state employee's with a famous "all bets are off now (low oil prices)" statement.

Now I had enough status in the campaign for a big job. That is how it works to the chagrine of many innocents I suppose. But after he turned on the state workers, I would not support him.

We also had Dem lobbyists who were very crooked. I watched too many very good people and strong liberal dems tolerate our dark side. I would not patronize them. Fought one governor who put a gangster on my payroll without my consent. Had to quit on that one.

I, and many liberals also refused to vote after Humphrey used Gestapo tactics to steal the democratic nomination from Macarthy. Probably not the smartest thing to do, but we did it for cosmic consciousness. In our minds. It was a sort of existential spiritual decision and impossible to explain. Except to another liberal.

Obama really did not follow his promises in the campaign. Now all of we liberals know the right wing is filled with ghouls and troglodytes. No one is more aware of that than us. So we fight with ourselves all the time. Like a woman who has to make a decision about an abortion, we struggle with the question of what to do or say. We held off a long time raising hell. In fact until the congressional Black Caucus gave us the OK.

I would say that was pretty sensitive of us. I will admit for a while before that we were puzzled. We were so surprised we could not believe our eyes. We had to figure out soemthing we did nto expect and had no way to understand. Time after time promises were broken. The top political pundits confirmed what we were starting to think. As Chris Mathews said: "he left us at the alter.

He reads books on Reagan and lauds them and reads Brooks every day.

Most of us tamp it down, but we cannot tamp it out all together. That would be too big a lie for many of us.

And if we all walked blindly into the dark world of ideology no one wold be left to know the truth.

We have to leave some outside, to remind us what the truth is. And the best ones to leave outside are the best seer's.

IMO