Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Mainstream Politics and Economics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (14403)	4/2/2012 7:03:43 PM
From: d[-_-]b	3 Recommendations Respond to of 85487

All we liberals are trying to do is get you some affordable insurance. And you fight us? If the concept of a big pool helps to reduce costs - why are there so many exemptions/waivers for unions and why is the government itself not a part of the grand insurance scheme? PS: My insurance is already affordable - no help by government needed.

To: koan who wrote (14403)	4/2/2012 7:05:42 PM
From: Broken_Clock	2 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 85487

"All we liberals are trying to do is get you some affordable insurance. And you fight us? " health premiums have skyrocketed under Obama and Obummercare. You have a problem and he's in the White House. he sold you and everyone else down the river to the big HMO's and pharmas.

To: koan who wrote (14403)	4/2/2012 7:13:48 PM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Respond to of 85487

All we liberals are trying to do is get you some affordable insurance. And you fight us? I care less about what people are trying to do, then what they actually do. PPACA makes health care insurance more expensive.

To: koan who wrote (14403)	4/2/2012 7:31:51 PM
From: sm1th	4 Recommendations Respond to of 85487

Private insurance has a 40% overhead. Medicare is 4%! koan, you have made this claim before and been proven wrong. I have posted results from publicly traded insurers before and will do so again. Below is form the latest SEC filing by Wellpoint, either the first or second largest private health insurance co. I apologize for the formatting, but the data is easily found for anyone actually interested in the truth. Overhead is about 13%, some of their competitors do better. Your comparison conveniently ignores the regulatory burden the govt puts on private insurance, but not on itself - Medicare. Govt solutions are almost always less efficient than those provided by an honest competitive market. VI. Results of Operations Our consolidated results of operations for the years ended December 31, 2011, 2010 and 2009 are discussed in the following section. Years Ended December 31 2011 vs. 2010 2010 vs. 2009 2011 2010 2009 $ Change % Change $ Change % Change Total operating revenue $ 59,865.2 $ 57,740.5 $ 60,740.0 $ 2,124.7 3.7 % $ (2,999.5 ) (4.9 )% Net investment income 703.7 803.3 801.0 (99.6 ) (12.4 ) 2.3 0.3 Gain on sale of business — — 3,792.3 — — (3,792.3 ) (100.0 ) Net realized gains on investments 235.1 194.1 56.4 41.0 21.1 137.7 244.1 Other-than-temporary impairment losses on investments (93.3 ) (39.4 ) (450.2 ) (53.9 ) 136.8 410.8 (91.2 ) Total revenues 60,710.7 58,698.5 64,939.5 2,012.2 3.4 (6,241.0 ) (9.6 ) Benefit expense 47,647.5 44,930.4 47,122.3 2,717.1 6.0 (2,191.9 ) (4.7 ) Selling, general and administrative expense 8,435.6 8,732.6 9,019.3 (297.0 ) (3.4 ) (286.7 ) (3.2 ) Other expense 1 669.7 681.7 1,394.9 (12.0 ) (1.8 ) (713.2 ) (51.1 ) Total expenses 56,752.8 54,344.7 57,536.5 2,408.1 4.4 (3,191.8 ) (5.5 ) Income before income tax expense 3,957.9 4,353.8 7,403.0 (395.9 ) (9.1 ) (3,049.2 ) (41.2 ) Income tax expense 1,311.2 1,466.7 2,657.1 (155.5 ) (10.6 ) (1,190.4 ) (44.8 ) Net income $ 2,646.7 $ 2,887.1 $ 4,745.9 $ (240.4 ) (8.3 ) $ (1,858.8 ) (39.2 ) Average diluted shares outstanding 365.1 415.8 480.5 (50.7 ) (12.2 ) (64.7 ) (13.5 ) Diluted net income per share $ 7.25 $ 6.94 $ 9.88 $ 0.31 4.5 $ (2.94 ) (29.8 ) Benefit expense ratio 2 85.1 % 83.2 % 83.6 % 190 bp 3 (40 )bp 3 Selling, general and administrative expense ratio 4 14.1 % 15.1 % 14.8 % (100 )bp 3 30 bp 3 Income before income taxes as a percentage of total revenue 6.5 % 7.4 % 11.4 % (90 )bp 3 (400 )bp 3 Net income as a percentage of total revenue 4.4 % 4.9 % 7.3 % (50 )bp 3 (240 )bp 3

To: koan who wrote (14403)	4/2/2012 7:34:01 PM
From: TimF	1 Recommendation Respond to of 85487

The insurance companies, big medicine (including docs) and big pharma are ripping us off. Private insurance has a 40% overhead. Medicare is 4%! False on both points. Overhead for the private sector is more like 10 to 20 percent. And that includes taxes which shouldn't be included in this comparison. The Medicare cost estimate doesn't include a lot of government overhead that isn't inside the Medicare program. The IRS, the GSA, the "board of directors" for this "insurance company" (congress), the "office of the CEO" (Obama and his staff), the treasury department handling any potentially needed debt etc. The government still has a lower overhead but 1 - Its more more than half, not one tenth. 2 - Overhead isn't totally waste. A lot of the private overhead is on stamping out fraud and abuse. 3 - Its partially, probably largely, because of the nature of Medicare claims. More claims per patient and more dollars per claim, lowers the overhead percentage even without being more efficient. 4 - Apparently government recognizes that the private sector isn't less efficient, because they contract out a lot of the processing to private companies rather than doing it themselves. If they are so much more efficient, why do they pay private companies to do their work?