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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Brumar89 who wrote (652522)4/23/2012 11:28:03 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1577031
 
I'm not sure that stand your ground is relevant. If Zimmerman is lying its probably because what happened was more clearly manslaughter with no, or insufficient, self defense element, or with him having started the fight and then while losing shooting. If OTOH he's telling the truth, then Martin was on top of him. Even in states where you have a duty to retreat the shooting would still be considered self defense.



To: Brumar89 who wrote (652522)4/26/2012 2:21:06 PM
From: Brumar894 Recommendations  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1577031
 
Why Zimmerman got a gun

Reuters has a long feature story on George Zimmerman

A pitbull was getting loose in their neighborhood and endangering their family, including George's wife. After multiple incidents, he got pepper spray and called animal control. The animal control officer advised getting a gun:

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.

......
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.

[ The liberal narrative on Zimmerman is really falling apart. ]

A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.

Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

....
In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.

[ Zimmerman a racist? Maybe he made the partner sit in the rear of the office or something. ]
.....
A NEIGHBORHOOD IN FEAR

By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.

One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.

But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.

On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.

"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.

[ How terrible. Someone could be killed by those scissors. Why isn't she under arrest for preparing to murder a poor helpless teenager? That's what comes from Stand Your Ground laws ... women arming themselves with scissors to stab hapless teens who might have wandered into the apartment by accident. ]

Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.

[ Ah ha, the wife is a racist too. She probably said, "The assholes always get away." ]

After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.

"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."

[ Holy cow, a neighborhood filled with racial profilers. ]

In September, a group of neighbors including Zimmerman approached the homeowners association with their concerns, she said. Zimmerman was asked to head up a new neighborhood watch. He agreed.

[ But he's still a vigilante, right? ]

.....
Police had advised Bertalan to get a dog. She and her husband decided to move out instead, and left two days before the shooting. Zimmerman took the advice.

"He'd already had a mutt that he walked around the neighborhood every night - man, he loved that dog - but after that home invasion he also got a Rottweiler," said Jorge Rodriguez, a friend and neighbor of the Zimmermans.

[ Probably taught it to attack black people on sight. ]

.....
Less than two weeks later, another Twin Lakes home was burglarized, police reports show. Two weeks after that, a home under construction was vandalized.

The Retreat at Twin Lakes e-newsletter for February 2012 noted: "The Sanford PD has announced an increased patrol within our neighborhood ... during peak crime hours.

"If you've been a victim of a crime in the community, after calling police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman."

EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.

"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.

On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.

Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.

Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.

Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.

Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.

"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.

The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.

This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.

"These assholes," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away."

After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery.

Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&38;utm_source=dlvr.it&38;utm_medium=twitter&38;dlvrit=60573



To: Brumar89 who wrote (652522)5/16/2012 9:17:12 PM
From: Brumar891 Recommendation  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1577031
 

More analysis by a liberal FL criminal defense lawyer:

Zimmerman's Medical Reports Show Broken Nose and Lacerations
By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Wed May 16, 2012 at 08:29:00 AM EST

Update: I was able to find a copy of the actual 8 page list of discovery items released by state's Attorney Angela Corey. ABC news has obtained the 3 page medical report from the doctor who examined George Zimmerman the day after he shot Trayvon Martin. The report was included in the discovery turned over to the defense Monday.

Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury....

The report also shows Zimmerman's upper lip and cheek were bruised and he had lower back pain. The back of his head had two lacerations, one of which was almost an inch in length. [More..]



The report also lists medication he was using. He took a medication that is routinely prescribed for children and young adults with attention-deficit disorder and a sleep medication. (Please do not use the name of the drug without asterisks in your comments because it brings out spammers from other countries who auto-register and post dozens of spam comments at one time. It takes me a long time to delete them.)

WFTV News reports it has confirmed Trayvon's autopsy report shows injuries to his knuckles, and broken skin on the knuckles. After the release of the state's affidavit was released, I began opining that the state would concede it was Trayvon Martin who turned their encounter into a physical one by slugging George Zimmerman. I expounded on this when writing about the requirements for second degree murder, and the support from his neighbors and the bond hearing.

In a nutshell, the state's theory seems to be Zimmerman improperly profiled Trayvon as a criminal, reporting him to police as a suspicious person for no objective reason. Zimmerman referred to criminals who commit home invasions, and to Trayvon (by erroneously assuming Trayvon might be about to commit a home invasion) as "as*holes" and "f*cking punks." Zimmerman's use of those words in reference to criminals and Trayvon is evidence of his ill-will and hatred, and of his depraved mind, in the act of shooting and killing Trayvon during the course of a later struggle.

The state seems poised to claim that Zimmerman's following of Trayvon, and his verbal demand Trayvon explain his presence in the neighborhood, based on his unfounded assumption Martin was a criminal, somehow provoked Martin into hitting Zimmerman and made him the aggressor.

For the reasons I explained in the above posts, the state is unlikely to prevail on such a theory. To be an aggressor, Zimmerman had to provoke the force used by Martin. Provoking a state of fear is not enough. Also, Zimmerman's provocation had to be contemporaneous with Martin's use of force against him. It can't be the result of something that happened earlier.

Profiling, following and pursuing someone is not provocation for a punch in the nose or banging someone's head into concrete.

If Zimmerman is not the aggressor, if he didn't provoke Martin's punch, he had no duty to retreat, and so long as his fear of serious bodily injury or death from Trayvon's punch and/or slamming his head onto cement was reasonable, his use of deadly force in response was justifiable. Zimmerman was not committing a crime by profiling or following Trayvon and Zimmerman had a right to be on the streets of his neighborhood.

Even if Zimmerman somehow was found to be the aggressor, all that does is trigger a duty to retreat, if possible. If retreat isn't possible, and he feared serious bodily injury or death from Trayvon's physical attack on him, he can still use deadly force.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or...

The statute couldn't be clearer that the actions of the aggressor must be one that provoked the use of force. The provocation also has to be contemporaneous to the use of force. See Johnson v. State:

Specifically, section 776.041 "[s]ubsection (2) precludes the initial aggressor from asserting self-defense where he or she is the individual who provoked the use of force contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense.

.... we note that the initial provocation would necessarily had to have been contemporaneous to the actions of the victim, as described in subsection 2(a), to which the defendant claims self-defense.

(The other section of the statute regarding forcible felonies only applies when the defendant (not victim) is charged with a contemporaneous independent forcible felony.) Numerous cases and Florida's standard jury instructions make this clear, as does a plain reading of the statute.

But even if Zimmerman's acts of following Trayvon or profiling Trayvon as a criminal were somehow deemed to be provocation, they still had to be contemporaneous with the punch. The only thing that could be considered contemporaneous would be his asking Trayvon to explain his presence. That hardly justifies a violent punch that breaks Zimmerman's nose in response.

If Trayvon struck Zimmerman, the only issue should be whether the attack was severe enough to reasonably cause a person, in this case Zimmerman, to fear serious bodily injury or death. Even in the unlikely event the Court were to agree with the state that Zimmerman was the aggressor merely for following Trayvon for no good reason, he'd still be entitled to claim self-defense after Trayvon attacked him, unless he had the opportunity to get away. How could he retreat, if he was on the ground locked in a struggle that began with him being punched and sustaining a broken nose?

The state waited to charge Zimmerman until its investigation was complete. They had to know (or at least believe) Trayvon was the one who turned the encounter from a verbal one into a physical one. The language of the affidavit and the testimony at the bond hearing strongly suggest it did know this. As I've said before, one of the first rules of trial practice is that a lawyer, in creating a theme and a theory for a case, must accept the "facts beyond change." You build your story from that.

The state may have done its best in coming up with a theory of criminal responsibility that accepts the "facts beyond change," including that Zimmerman had a broken nose and head lacerations, caused by Trayvon punching him and slamming his head against the ground or on concrete. It may sound reasonable to some, but I doubt it is legally supportable.

For the applicable legal citations and principles, see my prior posts:



As to the state's likely theory:

Also see:


talkleft.com

....


there's no evidence ( 5.00 / 1) ( #2)
by Jeralyn on Wed May 16, 2012 at 01:31:28 AM EST

he chased him brandishing a gun or showing it. The state hasn't alleged that, it has only said Zimmerman improperly assumed Trayvon was a criminal and followed him. It says a confrontation ensued and does not say Zimmerman initiated it or even that a gun was displayed during it.
.....

According to this article ( 5.00 / 1) ( #4)
by rjarnold on Wed May 16, 2012 at 01:52:18 AM EST

"Zimmerman wore it on a holster inside his waistband, according to a police report." It was also described as "a gun so small and light you can carry it in your pocket undetected." Also from everything I've read, it was very dark, so taking all this together I think there is a very good chance that Martin did not see the gun. Also, we don't know that Zimmerman confronted Martin, it could easily have been the other way around.

.....


Thanks for the info re ( 5.00 / 1) ( #5)
by oculus on Wed May 16, 2012 at 01:59:49 AM EST

the holster. I need to stay away from these posts as I can't figure out how the victim. Could have defused the situation and saved his own life. Very sad.

Parent

Six Ways ( 5.00 / 1) ( #7)
by nomatter0nevermind on Wed May 16, 2012 at 02:23:36 AM EST

Speculative response to a speculative question:
    Going home.
    Leaving the area, possibly calling his father to pick him up on the way home from the restaurant.
    Calling 911.
    Discussing the situation with Zimmerman without punching him.
    Walking away after Zimmerman was on the ground.
    Beating Zimmerman up with only his fists, without striking his head against concrete or grabbing for his gun.


............

Who Was The Victim? ( none / 0) ( #9)
by nomatter0nevermind on Wed May 16, 2012 at 03:07:01 AM EST

We don't know that Martin was a victim. Calling him that presupposes that the shooting was unlawful, which is the main point in contention. Tracy Martin and Brandy Green went out to dinner. Did you see the word 'restaurant'? If Martin had gone home, he would have been there within a minute of Zimmerman losing sight of him, at least a minute before Zimmerman's police call ended, at least three minutes before the fight started.


[ The shooting occurred about 35 yards from Zimmerman's vehicle and 70 yards from Brandi Green's townhouse ... which was in the opposite direction from Zimmerman. If he was just trying to get home, he could certainly have done so without Zimmerman even catching up with him. ]

.....

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