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Pastimes : Plastics to Oil - Pyrolysis and Secret Catalysts and Alterna -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Steady_on who wrote (24762)	5/22/2012 11:21:49 AM
From: jimmenknee	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 53574

Even if true, $10/bbl is a red herring. The costs/expenses between there and the bottomline are just being brushed off... .... i.e. the latest increase to costs (operational expenses) include another additional executive's salary/benefits and hefty raises for both the CFO and John. Wonder if SAIC's proforma was isolated to P2O?

To: Steady_on who wrote (24762)	5/22/2012 12:35:55 PM
From: 1Coffeehound	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 53574

At $10 /bbl cost that means that JBI has $1260 per day to pay for the costs of operations, labor, amortization etc. Oops. There's your problem. $10/bbl cost is a rumored number. Or rather it WAS a rumored number. Not even Bordynuik, who started the rumor, mentions it now. And that ridiculous number was based on the fantasy of free plastic. Yet you stake your conclusion on it. Tsk. Tsk.

To: Steady_on who wrote (24762)	5/22/2012 12:50:49 PM
From: 1Coffeehound	Respond to of 53574

I haven't suggested that you are unethical for disagreeing, but I will say that you have offered nothing to suggest that my estimates are wrong. Ahhh, but here's the hitch. When you throw ridiculous numbers out there, the onus is on you to prove them. Back them up with facts, don't ya know. Otherwise, it's rather dishonest to present your conclusion as though it is fact. And that's why your posts are seen as silly serpentine semantics.

To: Steady_on who wrote (24762)	5/22/2012 1:35:23 PM
From: PaperProphet	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 53574

Alright, Steady_on, I'm game. Let's see if you can continue a conversation that you yourself started or if you take flight at some point. To your numbers I'm going to assume that Mr. Bordynuik has to pay market prices for the plastic he's allowed to use, HDPE, PP, PE, and that he doesn't have any logical way of beating or circumventing that market. Let's face it, if he could get those plastic for free or could get paid to take it in any useful quantities like he has said in the past in his 'forward-looking' statements, he could make shareholders rich just by getting "waste" plastic for free and then reselling it on the scrap market. So we look up scrap prices: worldscrap.com is one such site. We'll pick the very cheapest option that fits which, at $0.35 for colored, post-consumer HDPE, is the cheapest by far and we'll assume we can make diesel at 80% efficiency (10% off-gas, 10% carbon and other unusable materials). Hypothetical ssumptions: 80% efficiency (10% for off-gas, 10% for carbon and other unusable materials. $0.35/lb or $700/ton. Cost of pyrolyzing, including catalyst, capital costs and labor: $3 per bbl or $0.07/gallon (just an arbitrary number less than $10/bbl). Output is pure diesel for this exercise. Transportation of plastic is free for this exercise. At 80%, each ton produces 1,600 lbs of fabled diesel at 7 lb/gal or 228.6 gallons. Cost per gallon: $700/228.6gal + $0.07/gal or $3.13/gallon. ($131.63 to produce each bbl) Current diesel spot price: $3.003 ( ycharts.com ). Note that spot prices do not include taxes or any retail markup you typically see at the pump. So looking at those numbers, it makes more sense to recycle the plastics even if that plastic could be converted to diesel.