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Politics : President Barack Obama -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Road Walker who wrote (115346)6/14/2012 12:01:03 PM
From: RetiredNow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 149317
 
Agreed. I don't know about you, but my house is paid off. I know I don't deserve any of this pain, because I live within my means. I think there are many tens of millions who don't deserve it. This country needs to get better at making the risk takers and criminals feel the pain, not the millions of Americans who had nothing to do with it.

BTW, different topic, but awhile back you pointed to a rising stock market and told me that the market is a good leading indicator of where the economy was headed. I didn't address that aspect of your post, but I've been thinking about it. I think that your statement was true at some point in the past. However, I think it is less true now. The reason is that with the Fed so actively engaged in QE and Operation Twist, they are having a very large disruptive impact on the stock market. So the predictive power of millions of people buying and selling stocks has lost credibility. You can see it in part by the increased correlation across all stocks. Most sectors seem to move in tandem now. The more highly correlated they are, the more you know the markets are moving not based on pricing mechanisms of the underlying stocks, but on external manipulation or shocks. Right now, the proximate cause is the Fed.

I have no data to back that up, but it's my common sense opinion. The reason why I thought I'd share that with you is because if you are banking your own money on your theory of an economic recovery on the horizon based on stock market increases, then you may be in for some hurt. So I thought I'd share the other side of the opinion with you in case you wanted to be more cautious.

My belief is that the stock market is no longer pricing in accurately the value of the underlying the companies and economy. The free market pricing mechanisms in the stock and bond markets have been deliberately broken by the Fed. That's not opinion. That is fact. Take interest rates on Treasuries in this country. They are set by the Fed and that's why they are low. Look what's happening to Spain and Greece and the other PIIGS. Those interest rates are set by free markets and they have gone stratospheric. That tells you what would happen here in the US to a lesser extent, if our Fed didn't have the power to set interest rates and to print money to manipulate the bond market. Stocks are the flip side of the coin. More QE the higher stock markets go. But it is AIR. It's not real. Therefore, be careful and make sure you separate your politics from your pocketbook. I wouldn't wish stock market losses on you or anyone else. Especially folks like you, who are the entrepreneurs who are the backbone of this country.

Good luck to you.



To: Road Walker who wrote (115346)6/14/2012 12:16:53 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 149317
 
For all our complaints that Congress is not doing anything of value, it could be that the US and the world has come to an economic inflection point that is extremely difficult to resolve. From an article, on the increasing price Spain has to pay for bonds:

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, the most important actor in the European drama, indicated Thursday in an address to the German Parliament that she would resist any outside attempts to force Germany to concede to what she called “simple” and “counterproductive” quick fixes. That, she said, includes a rejection of the jointly issued euro bonds and other forms of shared debt that some leaders, including the French president, François Hollande, have called for. Only by solving the root of Europe’s problems, she said, by strengthening political unity, will the region be able to recover fully from the crisis. She cited the massive debt and the lack of competition in the weaker economies of the union.

“We will only be successful when every, and I stress every, member country of the European Union, the European and international institutions as well as the peoples in our individual countries are ready to recognize the facts and realistically sum up our powers and put them to use for the greater good,” Ms. Merkel said.

She called for more innovation, improved technologies and a strengthened European domestic market and more flexible job market and less bureaucracy as key elements needed in order to ease the problems in the long term.

“I know it is arduous, that it is painful, that is a drawn-out task,” Ms. Merkel said. “It is a Herculean task, but it is unavoidable.”

Ms. Merkel also warned against overtaxing Germany, saying: “Germany’s strength is not endless. Germany’s powers are not unlimited. Consequently, our special responsibility as the leading economy in Europe means we must be able to realistically size up our powers, so we can use them for Germany and Europe with full force.”

Ms. Merkel’s address, setting Germany’s position before the coming G-20 meeting, was expected to be answered by Mr. Hollande and Prime Minister Mario Monti of Italy, who were scheduled to hold a press conference later Thursday in Rome.

In afternoon trading, the yield on Spain’s 10-year government bond rose 19 basis points to 6.87 percent, having reached a euro-era record of 7.0 percent earlier. The Italian 10-year traded to yield 6.22 percent, up 3 basis points. A basis point is one-hundredth of a percent.

European officials, fighting to contain the euro crisis, fear Italy will become the next country to fall under market attack. Even as they work to prevent further contagion, the world’s eyes are turning to elections Sunday in Greece, where fractious parties are angling for supremacy in a contest that is being treated by many as a referendum on the country’s euro zone membership.

Moody’s cut Spain’s sovereign bond rating by three notches, to Baa3 from A3, late Wednesday, citing the pressure on government finances from the bailout deal made over the weekend and Spain’s “growing dependence on its domestic banks as the primary purchasers of its new bond issues, who in turn obtain funding from” the European Central Bank.

Underscoring a point made by many economists who say Europe’s austerity focus has gone too far, and that the emphasis now should be on reviving growth, Moody’s noted in its downgrade of Spain’s rating that the country’s stagnating economy “makes the government’s weakening financial strength and its increased vulnerability to a sudden stop in funding a much more serious concern than would be the case if there was a reasonable expectation of vigorous economic growth within the next few years.”

The Spanish government did not comment Thursday on the downgrade, which followed a similar move by Fitch Ratings on June 7.

The terms of Spain’s bailout are yet to be negotiated. Still, just days after the weekend deal, tensions are building up between Madrid and Brussels over what its consequences will be.

On Wednesday, Joaquín Almunia, Spain’s representative in the European Commission, told Reuters that Spain would be likely to have to liquidate one of three troubled banks in which the state has had to intervene and that have failed to find any buyers — Catalunya Caixa, Banco de Valencia and NovaCaixaGalicia. Luis de Guindos, Spain’s economy minister, however, repeated this week an earlier government pledge that the government did not plan to shut any financial institution.

Moody’s also cut its credit ratings for Cyprus’s government bonds, and put them on review for further possible downgrade. The cut, by two notches to Ba3 from Ba1, takes Cyprus’s debt rating more deeply into junk territory. Moody’s cited the increasing likelihood that Greece — to which Cypriot banks are heavily exposed — would exit the euro area, “and the resulting increase in the likely amount of support that the government may have to extend” to the banks.

Cyprus, a tiny Mediterranean island-nation, is expected to seek its own banking sector bailout this week.

The Euro Stoxx 50 index, a barometer of euro zone blue chips, fell 0.7 percent, while the FTSE 100 index in London fell 0.9 percent.

Trading in U.S. index futures suggested that Wall Street was headed for a flat opening. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell 0.5 percent on Wednesday.

The dollar was mixed against other major currencies. The euro fell to $1.2551 from $1.2557 late Wednesday in New York, while the British pound fell to $1.5491 from $1.5505. The dollar fell to 79.32 yen from 79.49 yen, and to 0.9565 Swiss francs from 0.9564 francs.

Asian shares were lower across the board. The Tokyo benchmark Nikkei 225 stock average fell 0.2 percent. The Sydney market index S.&P./ASX 200 fell 0.9 percent. In Hong Kong, the Hang Seng index fell 1.2 percent.

David Jolly reported from Paris and Melissa Eddy from Berlin. Raphael Minder contributed from Madrid.


nytimes.com