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To: Paul Smith who wrote (18618)	6/23/2012 12:43:21 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 85487

<Whether Issa is nice or mean is what is irrelevant - what the President actually did is what is relevant. > Well, actually Issa's motivation is absolutely important to understanding the situation and while I"d wouldn't use words like "nice vs mean" without more explanation it doesn't mean the idea isn't without merit. More context ALWAYS holds more truth. IN FACT, take these 2 hypothetical cases: 1.) Issa has impeccable credentials in the past as far as ethical conduct, has called out unethical, dishonest, and illegal behaviour regardless of party or affiliation or topic at hand. 2.) Issa is always involved in partisan issues including being a well known mudslinger and "witch hunter" whenever his pet topics are involved even to the point of getting in the way of the highest good. Clearly it matters which Issa is involved in almost ANY TOPIC if inquiry... should we act quickly as he always picks his battles carefully and with an impeccable moral compass? Is this just another duplicitous waste of time he's become known for? Or something in between? IMHO you always have to take into account the whole situation... mean dupicitous people could bring the question up "what did person A do" about totally irrelevent situations any time they want just to be jerks and waste time expecting the other person to drop everything and answer. DAK

To: Paul Smith who wrote (18618)	6/23/2012 12:48:25 PM
From: longnshort	Respond to of 85487

here's where Koan gets his crap about F and F Debunking Rachel Maddow's Lies About 'Fast and Furious': MSNBC Hack Falsely Claims Scandal Just Like Shirley Sherrod 'Conspiracy' Tim Graham reports at NewsBusters, " Maddow Begs Media to Ignore Fast and Furious: Just Another 'Paranoid Delusion' Like Sherrod Scandal": In a ten-minute rant on her show Thursday night, Rachel Maddow tried to explain the long NBC and ABC blackout of “Fast and Furious” scandal news by somehow tying it to the Shirley Sherrod controversy. The American people should move along, since this scandal is only a “paranoid delusion” and shouldn’t be covered by anyone other than Fox News. It should be carefully quarantined. The graphic behind Maddow read “WHAT YOUR UNCLE WHO WATCHES FOX NEWS ALL DAY IS ALL WORKED UP ABOUT.” Maddow began: “The great Fox News conspiracy about Shirley Sherrod, the racist, that nobody else was covering, was, in fact, a paranoid delusion of the conservative movement and the conservative media machine. And so now, we find ourselves, a couple years later, facing another test for the news media. Do you take the bait again? Do you follow the latest Fox News conspiracy theory?” Actually, if there's a conspiracy, it's at Rachel Maddow's show, not Fox News. And I want to reiterate something I've said many times: Maddow truly is one of the most sinfully malicious hacks on cable TV --- and that's saying a lot, considering the competition on the left. First, on the Shirley Sherrod "conspiracy," see William Jacobson, " Saturday Night Card Game (Repeat after me: “The Shirley Sherrod tape was not misleading”)." The tape wasn't misleading, so Maddow's typical left-wing claim of "conspiracy" is bogus. Second, Maddow claims that "Fast and Furious" was all about conservatives screaming that the Obama administration was going to take away their guns. She calls it a "cockamamie conspiracy theory" and then highlights [Sipsey Street Irregulars blogger] Michael Vanderboegh from Alabama [as if he's some kind of prototypical right-wing loon]. Yeah, that's the Maddow model: the extreme-right is populated with birthers, militia-men, and gun rights cuckoos. All the rest is just a hoax. There is no "Fast and Furious" scandal. It was cooked up by the right to create fear that guns were going to be taken away. The only problem? Well, it's the Democrats who claimed it was all about guns, U.S. guns and gun shops. These were the source of the Mexico drug cartel crisis, and the thousands of people murdered south of the border were victims of the "90 percent" of weapons that originated in America. Who said that? Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama, for starters. According to Katie Pavlich, in her new book, Fast and Furious, the Obama administration claimed that "90 percent" of the guns in Mexico came from America. Pavlich highlights a 2009 Andrea Mitchell interview with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Asked what the U.S. was going to do about assault weapons being sold to Mexican drug cartels, short of new legislation banning high-power automatic weapons. Clinton said: We're going to start tracing these guns, we're going to start cracking down on illegal gun sales, and we're going to go after the straw men and women who go in and buy these guns. ... We're going to use every tool at our disposal... That exchange is at the clip, at 4:00 minutes:

To: Paul Smith who wrote (18618)	6/23/2012 1:29:55 PM
From: koan	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 85487

<<Whether Issa is nice or mean is what is irrelevant - what the President actually did is what is relevant. You seem to be saying that if Issa is a mean person, it doesn't matter what Obama really did. So, what is Obama hiding and why is he hiding it? Issa can't get him for anything that he did not really do.>> First, I am not a big supporter of Obama. It does matter who is doing it e.g remember Joe Mccarthy and his House of Unamerican Activities. That was a sad time in our country. I see Issa as a Joe Maccarthy type. Much more dangerous to our democracy than fast and Furious. And Fast and Furious was started under Bush'S AG. Why hasn't Issa called him to the stand? Holder shut it down. But what bothers me MOST is the fighting is not being done for the good of the country in an impartial way. The two sides are mostly just fighting. You can decide who is starting most of it. Issa is jUST after blood, much like when the Republican's impeached Clinton for nothing. I have been on these threads for over a decade. Do you remember any outrage from the right when Bush invoked exectutive privIlege his 6 times? Why no outrage then? And remember, one EP was for outing a covert CIA agent. That is a treasonous act. Or when he was firing AG's who were not right wingers. Starting a war on trumped up evidence. Torture, etc.