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To: DoggyDogWorld who wrote (3044)	7/6/2012 11:45:18 AM
From: thatsnotluck	Respond to of 3249

Re: fxby - winmill Re: Third point hedge fund at a 19% discount: <<I struggle with CEF discounts. If a fund just owns the SP500, which should return 6% over the long term, and management costs 2%/year in fees and other expenses with no hope of regime change or open-ending, isn't the proper discount 33% of NAV? How could it be otherwise? Yet few funds ever trade at such extreme discounts. Why not? And is it exploitable?>> interesting. i see your point. of course if they traded at a 33% discount they why would someone not buy them up and liquidate? but then, if economically they should have a 33% discount as going concern and little or none as a liquidation, can these things even exist in an economically rational world?

To: DoggyDogWorld who wrote (3044)	7/6/2012 11:50:22 AM
From: hdl	Respond to of 3249

Re: fxby - winmill Re: Third point hedge fund at a 19% discount: i had a huge % of my portfolio in cefs. i bought them at discounts often around 15% discounts. a lot were single country. a lot were emerging market. often, activists got involved. often deals were made with activists. some times, shareholders could get shares of companies in kind - what was i going to do with shares of asian or south american companies? i had huge gains. discounts narrowed considerably. i sold. after i sold, they did great (doubled) for a decade - while sp500 was flat. isl, kf, bzl, bzf, ch, tdf, cee, irl, gf and many others. mexico, argentina, turkey, phillipines, thai and others. there are domestic cefs with expense ratio around .5% there are foreign cefs with expense ratio around 1.5% now there are etfs to compete with foreign cefs. i do not think your math makes sense. ty underperformed. sbf didn't do great. adx, gam, cet were very good but cet hasn't been good for awhile. some buy bond fund cefs. they look for high yield on nav and mv is discount from nav. in financial crisis, some were at huge discount - they were highly levered and had to cut distribution.