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Politics : Did the Great Experiment Fail? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (25)	11/26/2012 11:08:29 AM
From: average joe	Respond to of 926

I recall a story of someone that lived through Nazi Germany related about their neighbor who had a child with Down's Syndrome. One day someone from the medical clinic came along and had a meeting with the parents and left with the child. But there was a difference between Nazi health care and the systems under the German Empire and the Weimar Republic. Hitler rearranged the system under a strict regime of central government control, so all insurance-scheme managers reported straight to Berlin. Later — and not through the insurance companies — Hitler started his infamous T4 program, which ordered doctors to euthanize tens of thousands of institutionalized patients, people who didn’t fit his vision of a pure new German Reich — immigrants, the old and weak, the mentally ill. That was evil. But it was part of an evil mechanism that extended far beyond the medical system: By 1939 Germany was a brutal dictatorship, and Hitler managed to kill millions of people in his own country regardless of whether they had health insurance. psmag.com

To: unclewest who wrote (25)	11/26/2012 1:31:39 PM
From: Joe Btfsplk	Respond to of 926

Medical ethics will now be slowly rewritten.... Can't remember who, but someone recently wrote about replacing the Hippocratic Oath with the veterinary ethic. That's a most excellent concentration of a wide range of certain results. Most won't believe, or care. John Dewey & Co. won.

To: unclewest who wrote (25)	11/26/2012 2:37:53 PM
From: ManyMoose	3 Recommendations Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 926

Why is it that we are passing laws to legalize same sex marriages, teach same in school, force companies and governments to cowtow and hire them on affirmative action principles when such behavior visited the plague of AIDS on the entire world? Don't they get that there's a reason it's considered immoral? For what it's worth, I don't believe in persecuting gay people but we shouldn't be giving them a free pass either. re: You wrote, "Except moral." Socialized medicine under Obamacare will hasten the growth of immorality. Medical ethics will now be slowly rewritten to include whatever the politicians want.

To: unclewest who wrote (25)	11/26/2012 4:20:12 PM
From: Maurice Winn	4 Recommendations Respond to of 926

Paradigm shift happens. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. <Given the 21st century’s combination of government-controlled medicine, with its inevitable rationing, and the culture of death, with its convenient rationalizations for denying care to the most vulnerable, might that sufficient cause be on the horizon?> It all seems such a great idea for a Great Society which can afford to look after everyone, with a bit of redistribution of all that wealth. And, it actually might be possible given the extreme technological developments which continue to burgeon so extremely that people in poverty die from obesity rather than hunger and people think it's sensible to burn food as fuel for vehicles to avoid a theoretical bit of CO2-based global warming which is showing little sign of being correct. With Peak People looming in 2037 but no peak in the technological revolution even theoretically likely, there really are open-ended prospects for glory. Ray Kurzweil's "The Singularity" en.wikipedia.org is far more than science fiction. Hmmm, maybe I'll make 2037 the date for The Singularity to go beyond the event horizon of technological development. Right now, we could actually do a Ted Kaczynski and kill off the technological revolution with total war against it, taking life back to Amish style or defining some limit safely away from the technological event horizon. After 2037 we would lose that war. Before then, the USA, NZ, UK and others are running out of money. While governments are running out of money, the Baby Boomers are reaching their dotage and expectations of cushy retirement following a cushy life [though many of them don't realize how cushy their lives actually are]. Within the next 7 years, it seems a reasonable likelihood that the amount of money is going to fail to meet the aggressive expectations for it. NZ's debts are mounting at $1.5 billion a month [near enough for government work] which for a population of 4 million with not a lot going for it is real money. The USA at 80 times NZ's size would go through $120 billion a month or $1.4 trillion a year [extra borrowing, not just spending] to match the rate of debt growth. $1.4 trillion is real money, even in the USA. When the Baby Boomers turn 70 and the welfare and taxi-driving immigrants have to vote to feed them and provide all mod cons along with increasingly expensive medical treatment and aged-care, the immigrants are going to take the same cultural approach to Baby Boomers here as they did to such things back in their own countries that they escaped from. In a similar way, invaders from Mexico who get a vote in the USA are not voting for the cultural and political norms which made the USA so hugely successful. They will vote to turn the USA into Mexico. Similarly, when the English arrived in NZ 130 years ago en masse, they did not become Maoris, cooking opponents and slaves in hangis, they stayed English and voted for a parliament with common law, private property and all that made NZ great [on a per capita basis]. A couple of days ago, while staying at Tairua [a town on the coast] enjoying fantastic summer weather, during a fishing outing on a little boat, we zipped over to Slipper Island, where Maoris stored their defeated victims by hamstringing them and breaking some bones. Our friends used to find lots of bones coming out of the sand during trips there. When dinner was needed, another few victims were killed and cooked and dinner was served. It was refrigeration at the time [no actual refrigerators being available]. It was strange to think of such horrors in such an idyllic scene. It was beautiful and peaceful. The NZ Baby Boomers are going to meet their destiny in a few years as welfare money runs out and producers continue to flee to Australia which so far has escaped a few trends. Maybe Slipper Island will once again be restocked if it all goes to Hell, international trade stops and fighting begins. But maybe not. Maybe welfare for younger people will be cut along with the minimum wage and care for old people kept up. I don't plan to depend on that. We have just started genetic selection and engineering too, so some big changes are coming. Maybe the improvements will exceed the burgeoning costs. The Baby Boomers are self-limiting [starting to die off already at increasing speed]. I'm optimistic. But there are some big changes coming. Probably involving people getting jobs instead of welfare. Eliminate the minimum wage and halve then quarter the benefits and people will start to find jobs. I could hire a few dozen to mow lawns, paint the house, build a holiday house at Tairua, build a dairy factory, do some telemarketing and door to door sales. Mqurice