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Politics : Politics of Energy -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Wharf Rat who wrote (36017)12/3/2012 5:09:47 PM
From: longnshort1 Recommendation  Respond to of 86356
 
mother jones reports .....lolol



To: Wharf Rat who wrote (36017)12/3/2012 10:22:16 PM
From: Hawkmoon1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 86356
 
The assertion that their is a "denialist industry" is no different than the assertion that there are those who have created a "AGW/ACC Religion". I think there is merit to both assertions. After all, there's a lot of money to be made by promoting one position, or the other.

HOWEVER, the rest of us, including myself, are in the middle of this argument, desperately in search for some credible science and FACTS to educate us.

But when I see the kind of shenanigans that we saw with Climategate, hiding raw data, refusing to answer calls from FOIA requests by other scientist, and ACTIVE attempts to censor and withhold peer review from dissenting scientific researchers, I have to question the credibility of those upon whom the IPCC seems to be depending for their conclusions.

And then when I see direct correlations between the increase of CO2, and decrease in ocean phytoplankton since 1950, none of which have been factored into the CO2 model, it further undermines the position of the so-called "mainstream" climate scientists.

I can see it very clearly.. How come your "mainstream" climate scientists cannot?

scientificamerican.com

climate.nasa.gov

Even you should be able to see the correlation, to the point of saying.. "Hmmmm.. that's interesting and needs to be researched further".. That is, if you're being intellectually honest...

Again, It really doesn't matter to me what the source of CO2 is.

This planet produces copius amounts of the gas without human intervention. What matters is whether existing natural processes, that have limited CO2 levels in the past, are breaking down. And the above charts/research strongly suggest that they are. The Oceans are dying from lack of Iron. The Fisheries are becoming increasingly depleted, and this will continue if phytoplankton levels are not restored. Yet, "mainstream" science would have us believe that it is GW that is allegedly increasing oceanic acidification, not the 40% decline in oceanic floral photosynthesis that is leading to increased dissolved CO2 in the oceans.

Logic DICTATES that if you decrease CO2 photosynthetic uptake in the oceans by 40%, you're going to see increased acidity and atmospheric CO2 levels.

Therefore, the problem is NOT why CO2 levels are increasing, or if it's forcing global warming, but WHY that excess CO2 is not being consumed by the plants that depend upon it for photosynthesis to the degree we've seen in the past.

Therefore, from my perspective, there exists a "AGW industry" that refused to answer the basic question of why CO2 is not being consumed at the same level as it once was by the botanical life on this planet.

Nor am I "wed" to fossil fuels. In fact, I would love to see us make the transition to a Hydrogen Economy, once we take the necessary steps to create the distribution infrastructure (via interim use of NG) and Hydrogen production required. And that hydrogen should be produced by ANY and ALL economically competitive means so as not to harm our economic productivity. (I currently favor development of Thorium LFTR reactors as they appear inherent safe and the fuel and facilities would be much less expensive than current nuclear technology).

I think of all the wasted money that has been spent on alternative energy technologies that have failed to deliver on their promise of economical "baseload" power, placing an increasing burden upon our economic productivity and consumers. And they defend this situation by trying to make the general public feel that they are "doing their part" by paying those increased costs, or subsidizing the technology, which hurts even worse when they go bankrupt for not being able to compete.

And I think of the Wall St financiers, and especially people like Blythe Masters, who helped to develop CDS, licking their chops at the amount of money they will make trading carbon credits (Masters was also instrumental in creating carbon credit markets)..

washingtonsblog.com

So maybe you're correct in believing there is a "denialist industry". However, don't tell me there doesn't exist an "AGW industry" that is equally "all about the money" when it comes to controlling people's access and use of energy.

And they are trying to convince us that "the debate on CC/GW is over".. OR that GW is on the verge of an "irreversible tipping point" that the planet cannot recover from..

And neither of those claims are even remotely close to the truth. And in the case of the latter, paleo-climatic records clearly show that no period of global warming has been "irreversible".. Nor is any period of glaciation..

Hawk