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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (31452)	12/4/2012 10:11:15 PM
From: 2MAR$	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

But you're starting at the very end of the story where the trillions of chemical trials have led to one successive state of self organization to higher complexity to the next, start with a human embryo or infant for instance & work up. But the essence is that matter even on the molecular level tends to self organize , at least on a warm planet that's not a closed system, ie: energy from the Solar body and heat from the core, volcano, lightning , shifting land masses, meteors, etc etc. If you wish to start at the end with language & the symbols an incredibly complex & organized system uses to communicate ideas , like you & me, then it seems impossibly hard to understand. But also you can find the simplest metaphors to describe most of our propensities & expressions, the complex is often driven by very simple understandable state of basic material needs in changing conditions of different states of life. An much has to do with our positioning in the system too, just like one part of your brain is always concerned with making constant reads resulting in simple but extremely necessary spatial awareness & balance. And then you wouldn't be finding terms & ideas being used like "fruitful" or "abundant life" or "constancy" and many of the other themes found in the essence expressed in so many of the parables. I have always like the "teach a man to fish & he can feed himself for life" !

To: Brumar89 who wrote (31452)	12/4/2012 11:26:56 PM
From: 2MAR$	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

Chemical complexity doesn't even address the question Oh ,yes it necessarily does , what you think can only be possibly understood & able to exist because of being tied to some "out there" phenomenon are in fact completely issuing forth from a long evolution of self organizing complex systems right before your very eyes. A rose is not a just a rose in the early earth, everything is in a state of constant change as we see by just the massive layers of laid down deposits of Iron or coal or gas that we mine today and many other discoveries of the great geological epochs. When you remove all the added cmplexity embroidered into the scriptures what they describe mostly are those references just mentioned, that of a fuller, freer, more abundant and everlasting life. This is not special at all but completely understood in simplest terms and seen over & over again in all human writings we call "religious". One thinks of most basic prophecy theme of all (sans "heaven or hell or afterlife") and what is it but the "Promised Land" or the "Holy Place" for pilgrimage of the Muslim Mecca and what does this tell you but all based in physical realities that have become themselves the symbol. Do you think the minority tribal families today are so fearful in Syria fighting to cling to their "high" position in that land are doing it for their places in the afterlife or really worried about gaining a position in heaven? Its been a dream all along of everlasting life but it goes too far, something an emperor Constantine would worry about ( and commision the bishops to define) or countless Pharoahs & Kings before , then became the dream of the lessor men all over and universally popularized. Does it surprise you that this "dream of immortality" would arise in the human brain really or just a natural progression of human longing ? Its really pretty elementary when you take the William Lane Craig's out of it, whether a God existed outside of time immemorial has really not the slightest impact on anything, what is symbolic & held to be spiritual from any tribe to tribe is always embedded in reality & real places. And sometimes we humans have too much time on our hands to dream this stuff up, ask mighty Quinn the Eskimo!