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To: Greg or e who wrote (1199)12/26/2012 3:29:02 PM
From: average joe1 Recommendation  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 2133
 
Isaiah 13:16

Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished (shakab).

Zechariah 14:2

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped (shakab). Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.



The word shakab could mean...



1) to lie down

a) (Qal)

1) to lie, lie down, lie on

2) to lodge

3) to lie (of sexual relations)

4) to lie down (in death)

5) to rest, relax (fig)

b) (Niphal) to be lain with (sexually)

c) (Pual) to be lain with (sexually)

d) (Hiphil) to make to lie down

e) (Hophal) to be laid

Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/7/1149695566-9435.html



The word is used to mean in a sexual sense in verses such as Genesis 30:16, 35:22, 39:7, Exodus 22:16,19, etc.



Obviously the most appropriate meaning for this word in this context could only mean in a sexual sense since most Bible translations have it this way...



KJV Translation

Isaiah 13:16

Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Zechariah 14:2

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



RSV Translation

Isaiah 13:16

Their infants will be dashed in pieces
before their eyes;
their houses will be plundered
and their wives ravished.

Zechariah 14:2

For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

New American Standard Bible Translation

Isaiah 13:16

16Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces
Before their eyes;
Their houses will be plundered
And their wives ravished.

Zechariah 14:2

2For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.



Amplified Bible Translation

Isaiah 13:16

Their infants also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.

Zechariah 14:2

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



New International Reader's Version Translation

Isaiah 13:16

16Their babies will be smashed to pieces
right in front of their eyes.
Their houses will be robbed.
Their wives will be raped.

Zechariah 14:2

2The Lord will gather all of the nations together. They will fight against Jerusalem. They'll capture the city. Its houses will be robbed. Its women will be raped. Half of the people will be taken away as prisoners. But the rest of them won't be taken.



Also, for those of our readers who do not know, the word "ravished" means to rape.



Bible commentator John Gill says...



Verse 16. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes,.... Upon the ground, or against the wall, as was foretold should be, Psalm 137:8 and in way of retaliation for what they did to the Jews, 2 Chronicles 36:17 and this was to be done "before their eyes," in the sight of the inhabitants, which must make it the more distressing and afflicting; and, as Kimchi observes, this phrase is to be applied to the following clauses:

their houses shall be spoiled; plundered of the substance, wealth, and riches in them, by the Persian soldiers:

and their wives ravished; by the same, and both before their eyes, and after that slain, in like manner as they had ravished the women in Zion, Lamentations 5:11.
(John Gill's Exposition to the Bible, Commentary on Isaiah 13:16, Source)





Matthew Henry states...



dash the children to pieces, and ravish the wives. Jusque datum sceleri--Wickedness shall have free course, Isaiah 13:16. They had thus dealt with God's people ( Lamentations 5:11), and now they shall be paid in their own coin, Revelation 13:10. It was particularly foretold ( Psalms 137:9) that the little ones of Babylon should be dashed against the stones. How cruel soever and unjust those were that did it, God was righteous who suffered it to be done, and to be done before their eyes, to their greater terror and vexation. It was just also that the houses which they had filled with the spoil of Israel should be spoiled and plundered. What is got by rapine is often lost in the same manner. (Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Commentary on Isaiah 13:16, Source)

The city shall be taken by the Romans, who have nations at command; the houses shall be rifled, and all the riches of them taken away, by the enemy; and, to gratify an insatiable lust of uncleanness as well as avarice, the women shall be ravished, as if victory were a license to the worst of villanies, jusque datum sceleri--and crimes were sanctioned by law. One-half of the city shall then be carried into captivity, to be sold or enslaved, and shall not be able to help itself, such is the destruction that shall be made in the great and terrible day of the Lord. (Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Commentary on Zecharia 14:2, Source)



So basically the rape of the women is justified because their women were raped back in Zion. So this is revenge and is justifiable according to the Bible. This is unlike Islam which would only hold the rapist accountable for his deeds:



Sunan Abu Dawud

Book 38, Number 4366: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.

She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).

When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sheikh Albani declared this hadith to be "hasan" (good) in Sunan Abu Dawud no. 4379)




To: Greg or e who wrote (1199)12/27/2012 3:03:10 AM
From: Solon1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2133
 
I asked you some questions! Squeak up or turtle up!!

Message 28624405

Question: If you were commanded by God through Moses (Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves) ...

What order of accomplishment would you follow? Would you butcher first or rape first? Would you butcher the young boys first? The mothers? The fathers? The youngest daughters? Non-virgin girls? How would you test for virginity? What if you got tired of raping to test for virginity? What would be your back-up plan?

When you were testing for bleeding, how would you separate the blood of thousands of butchered children from the one you were raping??

Do you think those stories were written by Jesus??

Please feel free to answer these questions like a man. Or, if you are not a man, please feel free to deflect them into a personal insult, or a red herring, or one or more straw men--or just a stunned expression on your face.

Ho! Ho! Ho! Merry Zeus Day!

“there is no command anywhere in scripture to rape anyone”

LOL! Stop being such a dishonest fool!

Message 28623865

The bible is the history of a barbaric god (an imaginary creature anthropomorphised by superstitious tribal people who lived 3000 years ago...and mental misfits such as yourself in modern times! Rape, murder, genocide, infanticide--commanded, committed…you name it!!

It is all there in the Bible for all to read and admit. No place to run from the facts and no place to hide!

“If you were living in Ancient Greece wouldn't you be proudly diddling some little boy right now”

The ancient Greeks practiced pederasty. If you and I lived in those times you would probably spend most of your time on your knees. ;-)

And I would probably be a bisexual if I lived in a bisexual culture.

See, Gregoree--that is one of the many differences between me and you. I have no problem following the truth where it leads--and respecting other cultures. While you (on the other hand) are afflicted with Histrionic Personality Disorder and Reaction Formation--each of which mires you in the most pathetic and pitiable bogs of dishonesty and immorality.

In the end, it comes down to the same thing over and over: You are too small in body, mind, and spirit to be any part of a man. Emotionally and mentally, you are a puerile adolescent who is afraid of Reason and who only wishes to crawl in a miasma of superstitious muck.