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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: longnshort who wrote (32895)2/3/2013 4:08:00 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
Yes, this brainsurgeon says he found himself as a tiny speck on a butterfly wing and was whisked up into the vast reaches of a core multiverse space into the light with silver angelic beings flying around. So you are going in for cosmic streams of conscious theories now? What will it be next conversion to the live Mother Earth & Gaia consciousness for you now ?

Of course they stress that his brain was completely shut down so this makes it a control situation but the reality is they have no way of making this quantifying statement since we do not know all that much about different coma states where the brain can still operate on what practically are immeasurable amounts of electrical impulse. It is extremely plausible that without sensations rising from the body being shut down (in deep relaxed states or meditation) one would certainly feel a sense of release & elation.

You are carrying vast stores of memories right now under hypnosis which can be reexperienced, reflecting an entire range of your own earlier developement & experiences, from sensations , feelings very real states of mind , like it was just yesterday. This fellow obviously is a good candidate for this being preprogrammed with these images & concepts aleady set in his mind of "heaven" , the word associating itself with that experience.

again they cannot ascertain that there was not some brain activity on some level, which wouldnt have to be much since every other form of activity would not be present to interfere as in normal waking state thats filled with a roaring cacophony of sensation.



To: longnshort who wrote (32895)2/3/2013 4:16:14 PM
From: Solon1 Recommendation  Respond to of 69300
 
"Alexander says the NDE had to be real because his brain was severely incapacitated by the meningitis and far from having sufficient capacity to produce such a vivid, elaborate experience."

Truth by Authority has absolutely no value for me. You may feel free to embrace it.

"This poetic interpretation of his experience is not supported by evidence of any kind. As you correctly point out, coma does not equate to “inactivation of the cerebral cortex” or “higher-order brain functions totally offline” or “neurons of [my] cortex stunned into complete inactivity”. These describe brain death, a one hundred percent lethal condition. There are many excellent scholarly articles that discuss the definitions of coma. (For example: 1 & 2)

We are not privy to his EEG records, but high alpha activity is common in coma. Also common is “flat” EEG. The EEG can appear flat even in the presence of high activity, when that activity is not synchronous. For example, the EEG flattens in regions involved in direct task processing. This phenomenon is known as event-related desynchronization (hundreds of references)."


If other scientists agreed with his "feelings" about this Christian experience, they would be holding news conferences throughout the world every hour of the day to proclaim this incredible news. But it is not news at all. In fact, myriad persons from disparate cultures and religious affiliations have had such "experiences". They are contradictory and mutually destructive, and they serve to invalidate one another on that basis alone. In addition to that, they are unscientific experiences which have always been explained.

In the case of Alexander (and leaving aside his motives)...his critical "fact"--the inactivity (or death) of his cerebral cortex--is simply NOT A FACT. If it were, then all credible scientists would be singing in the choir and all the world leaders would be meeting as we speak...

Message 28704153

"...Everything—absolutely everything—in Alexander’s account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was “shut down,” “inactivated,” “completely shut down,” “totally offline,” and “stunned to complete inactivity.” The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate—it suggests that he doesn’t know anything about the relevant brain science. Perhaps he has saved a more persuasive account for his book—though now that I’ve listened to an hour-long interview with him online, I very much doubt it. In his Newsweek article, Alexander asserts that the cessation of cortical activity was “clear from the severity and duration of my meningitis, and from the global cortical involvement documented by CT scans and neurological examinations.” To his editors, this presumably sounded like neuroscience.

The problem, however, is that “CT scans and neurological examinations” can’t determine neuronal inactivity—in the cortex or anywhere else. And Alexander makes no reference to functional data that might have been acquired by fMRI, PET, or EEG—nor does he seem to realize that only this sort of evidence could support his case. Obviously, the man’s cortex is functioning now—he has, after all, written a book—so whatever structural damage appeared on CT could not have been “global.” (Otherwise, he would be claiming that his entire cortex was destroyed and then grew back.) Coma is not associated with the complete cessation of cortical activity, in any case. And to my knowledge, almost no one thinks that consciousness is purely a matter of cortical activity. Alexander’s unwarranted assumptions are proliferating rather quickly. Why doesn’t he know these things? He is, after all, a neurosurgeon who survived a coma and now claims to be upending the scientific worldview on the basis of the fact that his cortex was totally quiescent at the precise moment he was enjoying the best day of his life in the company of angels. Even if his entire cortex had truly shut down (again, an incredible claim), how can he know that his visions didn’t occur in the minutes and hours during which its functions returned?

I confess that I found Alexander’s account so alarmingly unscientific that I began to worry that something had gone wrong with my own brain. So I sought the opinion of
Mark Cohen, a pioneer in the field of neuroimaging who holds appointments in the Departments of Psychiatry & Biobehavioral Science, Neurology, Psychology, Radiological Science, and Bioengineering at UCLA. (He was also my thesis advisor.) Here is part of what he had to say:

This poetic interpretation of his experience is not supported by evidence of any kind. As you correctly point out, coma does not equate to “inactivation of the cerebral cortex” or “higher-order brain functions totally offline” or “neurons of [my] cortex stunned into complete inactivity”. These describe brain death, a one hundred percent lethal condition. There are many excellent scholarly articles that discuss the definitions of coma. (For example: 1 & 2)

We are not privy to his EEG records, but high alpha activity is common in coma. Also common is “flat” EEG. The EEG can appear flat even in the presence of high activity, when that activity is not synchronous. For example, the EEG flattens in regions involved in direct task processing. This phenomenon is known as event-related desynchronization (hundreds of references).

As is obvious to you, this is truth by authority..."