To: Alighieri who wrote (704556 ) 3/16/2013 5:07:38 PM From: i-node 1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573208 So, you were NOT referring to our health care system, but to our payment system specifically? I can agree that it is dumb, but it is because of government's involvement and for no other reason. EVERY SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM IN OUR PAYMENT SYSTEM IS DIRECTLY TRACEABLE TO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT. All of it. Get the government out and we are no longer the "dumbest health care system in the world" -- only the best. We are the most expensive for a reason. We are the most innovative. And innovation costs money. If you don't want innovation, take the money out of it -- it will stop in a heartbeat. >> Because some of the largest medical companies are American. OF course. Because that's where the money is. Duh. >> but the ROW is contributing important work as we;;...we just heard of work in the UK that seems to cure AIDS...other in scotland that cures c-diff...after all Louis Pasteur was a frenchman and Barnard a South African. Yes, there has always been SOME innovation in the rest of the world; but most of the world's medical innovation has heretofore originated in the US; and most of what hasn't been created here, has been made commercially feasible here. Because the US has been, for the time during which almost all medical innovation has occurred, the place where it is allowed to flourish. >> It is a fact that Obamacare is starting to kill our innovation -- >> This is utter and absolute non sense...fact my ass There is plenty of evidence that clearly shows my statement is correct.foxnews.com " Venture capital flows into starting new healthcare services ventures have dropped sharply, from $1.2 billion in 2010 to $541 million in 2011 according to data from Dow Jones Venture Source and the National Venture Capital Association. Only about 30 venture-stage healthcare services companies got funded last year, compared to hundreds in previous years. Investments in new, facility-based healthcare start-ups have virtually ended."http://healthblog.ncpa.org/is-obamacare-stifling-innovation/ ". . . the National Institute for Health Care Reform (NIHCR) has issued a policy report warning a CER could stifle private sector innovation. “By promoting effective therapies, CER stands to increase the rewards and incentives for beneficial innovations in medical care. However, CER could dampen development of new, potentially effective therapies by creating additional hurdles for innovators,” report authors Emily Carrier, Hoangmai H. Pham, and Eugene Rich conclude.news.heartland.org The Dean of Harvard Medical School -- no right wing ideologue, but one who has pointed out the stifling effect on innovation, co-authored an opinion piece in the WSJ on ACOs and what a disaster they are in the making: "But what ACOs most assuredly will not do is deliver the disruptive innovation that the U.S. health-care system urgently needs."online.wsj.com I submit that these links represent "fact" as well as it can be known at this point in time.