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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Solon who wrote (34583)3/23/2013 8:07:59 PM
From: 2MAR$  Respond to of 69300
 
We find that many of the countries of western Europe have the lowest abortion rate in the world, at 12 per 1000 women of conceptual age. Then we find in eastern Europe there's been a dramatic decline in abortion from just the mid 1990's from over 100 down to 44 per 1000 by 2004. And this decrease directly coincides with raised awareness, attitudes towards the contraceptive use in those regions. Do we hear a stuned silence followed by even a slight whirring sound of brain gears getting engaged?

(Not a chance with these howler monkeys ).

Now for the countries that have low rates of contraception use we find sky high abortion rates.

a 2007 review, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia had the highest levels of abortion in the European Region. During their lifetimes, on average each woman has close to three abortions. The use of modern contraceptives is low in these countries.

Now lets abolish abortion altogether as these dum dums would have it , then you're back to skyrocketing risk & deaths of mothers because the incidence of women wanting/needing abortions does not diminish because its forbidden, they naturally take desperate measures . And this goes real hard in the less developed regions of eastern Europe and central Asia where up to 30% of maternal deaths are still caused by unsafe abortions.



To: Solon who wrote (34583)3/24/2013 1:00:14 AM
From: Greg or e1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
"That is irrelevant."

NO The murder of innocent children is not irrelevant. First you claimed I was a liar when I pointed out that you support partial birth abortions now you are claiming it's irrelevant and a woman can kill her unborn child for any reason, at any stage. But wait, Isn't that what you accused me of lying about?




To: Solon who wrote (34583)3/24/2013 3:44:30 AM
From: average joe  Respond to of 69300
 
Here he goes on the same topic some time ago...

To: Solon who wrote (5244)

2/9/2001 11:52:24 AM

From: Greg or e Read Replies (2)

of 82482

Morning Solon

Welcome back to si. I read your post and couldn't help thinking, what a valiant effort it was, to pull a rabbit out of your hat. Unfortunately like our friend Bullwinkle, the thing that emerges is not a rabbit at all, but a monster. In this case the monster is called abortion, but it has many other names as well. You rightly pointed out the inconsistency of Karin's position, but you failed to see how it was fatal to your own as well.

The point I am trying to get at (amongst several) is: If you are the only arbiter of fairnessthen, from your belief that your policy is moral, it follows that what makes a policy moral is your say-so (for you), and my say-so (for me)..and so on. This denies the meaning of morality, which involves relationship. Nothing is immoral to one on a deserted island, unless there is a God present.

"Unless there is a God" Well there's the rub isn't it.

I agree with your assessment of the pro-abortionist failure to come to grips with the fact that every abortion ends a human life. I fail to see how your attempt to justify the same, by shifting to the imagined, firmer ground of " reason and freedom as having fundamental moral value......."escapes from the same criticism that you leveled at K. "Nothing is immoral.......Unless there is a God" Certainly if "morality...involves relationship" then it follows that, "fundamental moral values" must account for fundamental relationships. If God does not exist then you are back to just your say so, as against mine. Unborn children, being helpless and not having the ability to express their say so, are simply at the whim of, and at the mercy of, the stronger.

As you quoted, "To preach morality is easy, to give it foundation is hard" Apart from God there can be no foundation that is not simply arbitrary. You have failed to demonstrate why we should be Free to kill an unborn child simply because it is dependent on the mother for it's existence.

I watched an interesting discussion on the tube the other night. It was dealing with the Brits allowing the experimentation with, and on, human clones. The Scientists defended their Right to conduct these experiments based on the fact that no embryo was kept alive more than fourteen days. The ethicist on the panel said they had investigated the rational, for the fourteen day period and had concluded it to be totally arbitrary. I found myself wondering, if fourteen days was ok, why not fourteen weeks? If fourteen weeks was fine why not forty weeks? Hey if one minute before birth might be alright then what about one minute after? Finally if one minute after is allowed why not one day or week or year. We could use kids with severe disabilities . After all they slipped through the cracks anyway. We should have aborted them when we had the chance. Prisoners might be a great source of excess body parts and a testing ground for new drugs. Just think of all the progress. Ain't Science wonderful????? We (humans) have an almost infinite capacity to rationalize any evil we can imagine, and we use Freedom and Reason to do it.

Greg



To: Solon who wrote (34583)3/24/2013 12:36:49 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 69300
 
So we find the US stats for abortion show a decline of 7%, seen due to access to contraception & morning after pill with lowered age limit.
cbsnews.com

We have the following recommends

  • OB/GYN society says birth control pill should be sold over-the-counter
  • UN calls contraception access a "universal human right"
  • Now lets take a look over to the Middle East & any casual glance shows the violence hapening over there, 9mil population in the city of Cairo now ruled by the Islamic brotherhood calling for a ban on contraception