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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Alex MG who wrote (713887)	5/7/2013 8:27:15 PM
From: Alex MG	1 Recommendation Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1583806

The Latest Benghazi Silliness: A Preemptive Attack on Hillary Clinton The “cover-up” nobody can explain Charles Johnson Politics • 20 hours, 38 minutes ago • Views: 10,218 OK, we might as well post something about the latest round of right wing Benghazi hysteria, because it’s all you’re going to hear about this week. Once again, the right wing is successfully manipulating the mainstream media into covering this overblown non-story, and CBS News is right out in front of the pack: Diplomat: U.S. Special Forces Told ‘You Can’t Go’ to Benghazi During Attacks. The deputy of slain U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens has told congressional investigators that a team of Special Forces prepared to fly from Tripoli to Benghazi during the Sept. 11, 2012 attacks was forbidden from doing so by U.S. Special Operations Command South Africa. The account from Gregory Hicks is in stark contrast to assertions from the Obama administration, which insisted that nobody was ever told to stand down and that all available resources were utilized. Hicks gave private testimony to congressional investigators last month in advance of his upcoming appearance at a congressional hearing Wednesday. According to excerpts released Monday, Hicks told investigators that SOCAFRICA commander Lt. Col. Gibson and his team were on their way to board a C-130 from Tripoli for Benghazi prior to an attack on a second U.S. compound “when [Col. Gibson] got a phone call from SOCAFRICA which said, ‘you can’t go now, you don’t have the authority to go now.’ And so they missed the flight … They were told not to board the flight, so they missed it.” No assistance arrived from the U.S. military outside of Libya during the hours that Americans were under attack or trapped inside compounds by hostile forces armed with rocket-propelled grenades, mortars and AK-47 rifles. Hicks told congressional investigators that if the U.S. had quickly sent a military aircraft over Benghazi, it might have saved American lives. The U.S. Souda Bay Naval Base is an hour’s flight from Libya. “I believe if we had been able to scramble a fighter or aircraft or two over Benghazi as quickly as possible after the attack commenced, I believe there would not have been a mortar attack on the annex in the morning because I believe the Libyans would have split. They would have been scared to death that we would have gotten a laser on them and killed them,” Hicks testified. Two Americans died in the morning mortar attack. For some much-needed context on these latest claims of a “cover-up” (a cover-up for which no one seems to be able to explain the reason), check out who’s representing these so-called “whistle-blowers:” Joseph diGenova and Victoria Toensing run a law firm together. They are also married. They are also soldiers in the dirty wars we have between the two major parties. When Scooter Libby was indicted, diGenova and Toensing demanded a pardon. In fact, they had been brawling on Libby’s side for years. Toensing even authored an amici curiae brief with the US Court of Appeals in Washington, seeking to overturn the ruling that forced Matthew Cooper and Judy Miller to testify in the Libby case. […] They are nothing more than partisan brawlers. And now they are representing so-called Benghazi whistleblowers who claim they have faced intimidation from their employers in the State Department. Mr. diGenova is representing Mark I. Thompson, who is a deputy coordinator for operations in the State Department’s counterterrorism bureau. Ms. Toensing is representing Gregory N. Hicks, who was serving as the deputy chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Libya at the time of the Benghazi attacks. Both men will testify on Wednesday before Rep. Darrell Issa’s House Oversight & Government Reform Committee. If they wanted to be taken seriously, they would have retained less notorious counsel. With the new focus on the State Department, it’s clear that the main target of these accusations is Hillary Clinton; it’s a preemptive attack against her 2016 run for the presidency. UPDATE at 5/6/13 11:44:21 am Here’s a devastating refutation of Gregory Hicks’s imaginary cover-up scenario: Benghazi (II): A Military Analysis of the Fox Mystery Man’s Fantasy Rescue Plan \| the Best Defense. I’ll just quote the last line; read the whole thing to see how ridiculous and absurd the accusations by Hicks really are. The person in the interview is a clown and I am incredibly disappointed in the news for not using Google.

To: Alex MG who wrote (713887)	5/7/2013 8:30:52 PM
From: Alex MG	1 Recommendation Respond to of 1583806

Fox News ‘Expert’ Outlines Benghazi Rescue Plan That Would Have Worked Great Except For The Time Travel Part wonkette.com Hey, did you know that during the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Barack Obama just sat on his ass and giggled at the news of Americans dying? It may have been mentioned once or twice. And despite people in the reality-based community consistently saying that a rescue operation was never a realistic option, Fox News continues to claim that the Obama administration either rejected or never considered taking action that could have made everything better. Most recently, an April 30 story on Fox presented an interview with an anonymous “special operator” who claims to have watched the Benghazi attack unfold, and also says that a special operations team training in Croatia could have arrived in Libya in time to save two of the four Americans killed. Security analyst, retired Marine and awesome name for a superhero’s secret identity Billy Birdzell, writing in Foreign Policy, thinks Fox’s mystery man is more than a little full of shit. In a detailed discussion of the timeline of events, Birdzell explains why the Fox guest’s rescue scenario is pure wishful thinking. Wait, WHUT??? First off, let’s get some of the acronyms and military jargon taken care of; please pay close attention so that you can use these terms when arguing with wingnuts or playing Call Of Duty Black Ops II: “C-110? stands for Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 10th Special Forces Group. It is a unique company within the 10th SF Group in that it is trained as a Commander’s in-Extremis Force (CIF). Each of the five active duty SF Groups has a CIF and they respond to important threats within their geographic area which are below the threshold for, or availability of, elements from the Joint Special Operations Command (like the Delta Force). A CIF has approximately 40 operators. And now, let’s get down to the nitty on what happened, and when. If Fox’s guy really is in Special Forces, you do not want him planning any operations that involve clocks and travel. For that matter, you wouldn’t even want him preparing your AAA Trip-Tik for a drive to Dubuque. According to the Pentagon timeline posted by CNN, the enemy attack began at 2142 and all US personnel were out of the consulate by 2330. By 2330, Ambassador Christopher Stevens and the foreign service information officer, Sean Smith, were dead. President Obama was briefed at 2300 and SOF were approved to launch from Croatia (C-110) and the United States (Delta Force) at 0239 and 0253 respectively. At 0515, the attack began against the annex. [Glen] Doherty and [Tyronne] Woods were killed by mortar fire shortly thereafter. Obama gave the launch order at 0239. The mystery operator said 4-6 hours. That’s 0639-0839. Woods and Doherty died at 0515. An Air Force C-17 was evacuating personnel from the Benghazi airport at 0740. Mystery man and Fox News can’t add. Strike one. OK, but what if Barack Obama hadn’t been standing around picking his nose or playing basketball or whatever it is that lazy black presidents do when Americans are dying? Birdzell notes that real military operations also involve more than travel time from Point A to Point B, because of silly details like getting a transport plane from one base to another, loading equipment, making sure everyone’s gone to the bathroom before pulling out of the driveway, and so on: For argument’s sake, assume Obama gave the launch order 10 minutes after he met with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta at 2300. Four to six hours turns into 0310-0510. Six hours, however, would have been impossible. If the Commander of European Command coordinated with his counterpart in Africa Command as soon as the National Command Center informed General Dempsey at 2230 and they diverted a C-17 to Croatia in anticipation, it is still highly unlikely the plane would have been on the ground in Croatia before midnight; it takes an hour to fly to Croatia from Germany and a crew would have had to have gotten ready, briefed, examined contingency plans, and fueled the plane. From Zaton Military Airport in Croatia, it is over 900 miles to Benghazi, which would have taken approximately two hours in a C-17 cargo plane. Zaton is on the coast and it more likely the CIF would have flown out of Udbina Airport, but this is a best case scenario. Assuming the Air Force was willing to land a C-17 at the Benghazi airport with an unknown security situation, once on the ground, the 40-man CIF would have then had to have moved to the annex which was 30 km away. Moving such a far distance would have required vehicles. 40 operators can move in 8 HMMWVs, which can fit into one C-17. However, did they have the vehicles with them? Did they have everything on the training mission that they needed to go into combat? If not, it would have taken more time for someone to get everything ready. Maybe the man of mystery is creative and planned on renting cars from Avis (yes, Avis has a location at the Benghazi Airport) and using stealth to get to the consulate in a move akin to the French using taxis to get to the front in order to stop the Kaiser’s hordes back in 1914. Mystery man is really a cook who has never been on a deployment. Strike two. And so on. Birdzell also notes that even in various wishful scenarios that might involve magic airplanes that are already loaded and ready to go, or maybe nighttime parachute drops into Benghazi, or possibly floo powder from the Ministry of Magic, the team from Croatia would not only have been too late to save Ambassador Stevens and Sean Smith at the consulate, but would almost certainly have been unable to save Woods and Doherty at the CIA annex, because the two were killed by mortar fire: Forty operators armed with rifles and light-machine guns can neither stop mortar rounds nor determine from where the mortar is being fired. The only thing the CIF would have done had they gotten to the annex before 0515 is created more targets and overcrowded the consulate… Strike three. Birdzell sums up the quality of Fox’s top-secret anonymous source (who, incidentally, is very worried that the Obama administration may assassinate him for speaking out): “The person in the interview is a clown and I am incredibly disappointed in the news for not using Google.” On the other hand, we’re pretty sure that if that Special Forces group had made it to Benghazi just in time for a few of its members to be killed as well, then Fox News and Republicans would be praising President Obama for giving a rescue mission the best possible try.

To: Alex MG who wrote (713887)

5/7/2013 8:35:58 PM

From: Tenchusatsu

5 Recommendations Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1583806

Thanks Alex for providing the link to that post of yours.

It allowed me to find Simplicity's response, which was very well-written and classy considering the flames you directed her way:

To: Alex MG who wrote (4702)	1/24/2013 1:14:22 AM
From: simplicity	21 Recommendations Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10312

I find it fascinating that you somehow gravitated to this forum labeled 'Politics for Conservatives'. Part of the conservative mindset entails a desire for honest debate, which is generally believed to include a recitation of facts followed by opinions derived from those facts. Often, in conservative debate, one will find harsh (generally justified) criticism of politicians' policies or agendas, or the political process itself, but rarely, if ever, will one find personal slurs aimed at one's debate opponent. It's just the nature of the conservative mindset ... unwavering respect for the freedom to voice one's opinion, and a desire to accord a measure of dignity even to those who embrace an entirely different viewpoint. Upon reading your comment here, I looked back at the comments to which you were responding, and found not one example of rudeness or name-calling directed at you (which is par for the course for the posters on this forum). Yet you spent 50 of your 155 words in your comment throwing personal slurs at those who disagree with you. A full 30% of your effort was aimed at personally degrading someone who does not share your point of view. you conservative morons still worship these people as some kind of heroes ... you people are beyond pathetic ... you are all mentally deranged with your hysterical outrage for any and all Dems/liberals/progressives ... seek some metal help for your hysterical hatred... I bet you also Obama for your erectile dysfunction It's no wonder very few people respond to your attacks. We on this forum are interested in honest political debate, not making vile negative inferences about someone we have never even met, based simply on the fact that he/she embraces an opposing perspective. I've been here a year, and you are the first person I have placed on 'ignore'. Congratulations!

To: Alex MG who wrote (713887)	5/7/2013 9:44:16 PM
From: Alex MG	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1583806

Benghazi (II): A military analysis of the Fox mystery man's fantasy rescue plan Posted By Thomas E. Ricks Thursday, May 2, 2013 - 10:51 AM By Billy Birdzell Best Defense guest columnist On April 30, 2013, Fox News aired an interview with a supposed member of U.S. Special Operations Command who said that members of "C-110," who were training in Croatia on September 11, 2012, could have both arrived at the Benghazi consulate in 4-6 hours and arrived before the second attack on the annex during which Tyronne Woods and Glen Doherty were killed. The mystery man critiques the Obama administration's decision-making, yet offers no information as to how C-110 would have influenced the battle in such a way that the outcome would have been different. Perhaps because it was actually impossible for C-110 to arrive before the attack, and if they did, they would not have been able to do anything that would have prevented our heroes, Woods and Doherty, from being killed. "C-110" stands for Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 10th Special Forces Group. It is a unique company within the 10th SF Group in that it is trained as a Commander's in-Extremis Force (CIF). Each of the five active duty SF Groups has a CIF and they respond to important threats within their geographic area which are below the threshold for, or availability of, elements from the Joint Special Operations Command (like the Delta Force). A CIF has approximately 40 operators. According to the Pentagon timeline posted by CNN, the enemy attack began at 2142 and all US personnel were out of the consulate by 2330. By 2330, Ambassador Christopher Stevens and the foreign service information officer, Sean Smith, were dead. President Obama was briefed at 2300 and SOF were approved to launch from Croatia (C-110) and the United States (Delta Force) at 0239 and 0253 respectively. At 0515, the attack began against the annex. Doherty and Woods were killed by mortar fire shortly thereafter. Obama gave the launch order at 0239. The mystery operator said 4-6 hours. That's 0639-0839. Woods and Doherty died at 0515. An Air Force C-17 was evacuating personnel from the Benghazi airport at 0740. Mystery man and Fox News can't add. Strike one. For argument's sake, assume Obama gave the launch order 10 minutes after he met with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta at 2300. Four to six hours turns into 0310-0510. Six hours, however, would have been impossible. If the Commander of European Command coordinated with his counterpart in Africa Command as soon as the National Command Center informed General Dempsey at 2230 and they diverted a C-17 to Croatia in anticipation, it is still highly unlikely the plane would have been on the ground in Croatia before midnight; it takes an hour to fly to Croatia from Germany and a crew would have had to have gotten ready, briefed, examined contingency plans, and fueled the plane. From Zaton Military Airport in Croatia, it is over 900 miles to Benghazi, which would have taken approximately two hours in a C-17 cargo plane. Zaton is on the coast and it more likely the CIF would have flown out of Udbina Airport, but this is a best case scenario. Assuming the Air Force was willing to land a C-17 at the Benghazi airport with an unknown security situation, once on the ground, the 40-man CIF would have then had to have moved to the annex which was 30 km away. Moving such a far distance would have required vehicles. 40 operators can move in 8 HMMWVs, which can fit into one C-17. However, did they have the vehicles with them? Did they have everything on the training mission that they needed to go into combat? If not, it would have taken more time for someone to get everything ready. Maybe the man of mystery is creative and planned on renting cars from Avis (yes, Avis has a location at the Benghazi Airport) and using stealth to get to the consulate in a move akin to the French using taxis to get to the front in order to stop the Kaiser's hordes back in 1914. Mystery man is really a cook who has never been on a deployment. Strike two. Even if one of them had Avis First and the cars were waiting on the runway, the timing would have been iffy. Parachuting would have been another option. There is a large, open field close to the U.S. consulate at the southwest intersection of Third Ring Road and Shan Al-Andulus Road that could have accommodated the CIF. However, one is defenseless while parachuting, so it is a good idea to insert a good distance from the action to ensure one is not shot before his boots hit the ground. The Benghazi Zoo is only 3 miles from the consulate and the combination of trees and animal cages would have provided good cover, as well as entertainment, in case someone saw 40 people parachuting into the middle of the city. Assuming magical planes were waiting for the CIF and they were somehow able to physically get to the annex before 0515, mystery man failed to mention that Doherty and Woods were killed by mortar fire. Forty operators armed with rifles and light-machine guns can neither stop mortar rounds nor determine from where the mortar is being fired. The only thing the CIF would have done had they gotten to the annex before 0515 is created more targets and overcrowded the consulate. Even if the CIF was on ready 5 (fully armed, sitting in the aircraft with pilots at the controls) in Sigonella (the closest European base to Benghazi) with advanced warning of an attack but unsure of the time, and they launched at 2232 on only-in-Hollywood orders from someone other than the president, they would not have been able to do anything about Stevens and Smith's deaths, nor stopped the mortar rounds. Strike three. The person in the interview is a clown and I am incredibly disappointed in the news for not using Google. Billy Birdzell served as a U.S. Marine Corps infantry officer and special operations team leader from 2001 to 2009. He is currently pursuing a master's degree in security studies at Georgetown University.