To: Solon who wrote (36721 ) 5/29/2013 11:05:21 AM From: Blasher Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 69300 wrt your Martin Luther quotes and the tingle it sent up your legs . . . YOU prove his point! The fact that you are using YOUR reasoning skills (as a human .. taking stuff out of context) to prove your points is exactly how it gets in the way of Faith. I believe that God has made me and all creatures. He has given me my body and soul, eyes, ears, and all my limbs, my reason, and all my senses, and still preserves them. Here, reason is a good thing and a gift from God to us to help us figure out life in this world. Of course, in each of your quotes, Luther isn’t talking about figuring out the things of daily life. I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ or come to Him. But the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. When it comes to knowing God, our reason isn’t useful, rather, it gets in the way of the Gospel and grace that is so contrary to our reason. This would be what Luther’s referring to in your quotes. Like with most of Luther, thinking in and discerning between two realms (before God and before people), is really helpful in understanding what he’s saying. Here is another of Luther's quotes from Table Talk: "so it is with human reason, which strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it" So here Luther talks about how GOOD human reason is . . it helps us strive TOWARDS Faith .. when enlightened! (once we have belief through the Holy Spirit) Anyway . . . just my thoughts on that. I write this mostly for the benefit of others who may be reading your stuff. I know that these words are lost on you . . though I would love for you to desire to know. THEN I would give my time and words and thoughts and reason for YOU. PM me if you're ever interested in knowing where my happiness comes from. Have a great! day.