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Gold/Mining/Energy : Gold Price Monitor -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Douglas M. Benedict who wrote (3892)12/6/1997 1:19:00 PM
From: PaulM  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 116836
 
Bloomberg is reporting:

1. Halla Group, S. Korea's 5th largest conglomerate, was declared bankrupt yesterday by creditors, with $5.8 Billion debt.

2. Coryo, one of S. Korea's top 10 securities firms, also collapsed yesterday.

3. Young Jin Pharmaceuticals, also of S. Korea, said it would go to SK courts to request rescheduling debts of abotu $140 mill.

And in Japan.....

Sumitomo Bank has retaind invest bankers as it is considering the Sale of Bank of California, that state's 5th largest Bank..........

Looks as though asset sales, including U.S. assets, may be beginning. California commercial real estate will likely be included in the first wave. However, the positive attitude in this country will probably produce enough buyers to mitigaet the effects on price somewhat.



To: Douglas M. Benedict who wrote (3892)12/6/1997 1:22:00 PM
From: Bobby Yellin  Respond to of 116836
 
I just reread Tom's post and then I reread my post.I think he knows me well enough to know I really respect his ideas and that I don't mind getting trashed in the pursuit of understanding..
.I was curious if his friend thinks all untangles overtime or if we are building one gigantic bubble..also curious why metals are in a deflationary spiral since there is no longer massive dumping and haven't read about signficant instructure rebuilding..although technology does make things more efficient..
I guess I think the price of gold is being manipulated successfully
and when people refer to it as a barometer I cringe sometimes and
think it is part of the emperor's new clothes scenario..but perception create change?
I always try to have an overview and try to factor in everything
that I can think of to have some idea what might happen..
I ended my post with what a deep pocketed individual might do..
I guess my conclusion was they too would short the gold market in
hopes of being able to pick up gold at even lower levels rather than
take the averaging down at these levels..they probably wouldn't buy
until there was some central bank announcement hinting at a policy
change or something..
other factors were mentioned that make me think this balancing act can't continue and in the process of "good times" for the US economy...it is pretty severe times for miners,now for Koreans (besides all the other tired tigers) who I just read are the 11 largest economy..(ie Goldsnow mentioned possibly civil war in South Africa with a potential 150,000 jobs in jeopardy(please check that number)..
also pretty severe times for a lot of overworked americans who will
probably burn out...
I guess I threw in a lot more which again makes me bullish on metals..
down the road.. The other day a friend said gold was dead forever
and this time is different...I said time will tell...



To: Douglas M. Benedict who wrote (3892)12/6/1997 7:27:00 PM
From: Cascade Berry  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116836
 
That's a good point...which possibly explains why gold mining companies can do ok in a general deflation - as long as the cost of mining is dropping at a similar or faster rate compared with the price of the produced commodity...with this in mind it might be useful to consider the effect of greatly lower energy costs from the perspective of energy consumers like mining companies...I think that the lower oil prices ahead will in general be stimulative of commodity demand, especially helping the Japanese and Asian economies to recover - which are net aggregate importers on a large scale of oil. In fact this analogy may explain a lot of the current bull market in stocks...although net real incomes of consumers has been flat to declining over the last several years, their "sense" of well-being has actually improved, as the things they want to aquire with that income has declined at a faster rate than their income - in this we gradually deflate our way back to the go-go era of the sixties. With the advent of energy de-regulation, better energy conservation, declining oil prices, and new energy technologies (eg. Ballard/Daimler Benz hydrogen fuel cells, or modern co-generation) we can expect deflationary forces in the energy arena on balance - this should actually help consumers to consume things other than energy - ie. a shift in the spectrum of things consumed away from energy. This may in fact help things like gold and silver - suggesting that the traditional logic of the link betweeen energy prices and gold prices may no longer apply. I think this deflationary logic is what is fuelling the bull in stocks and bonds, and is <temporarily> harming commodities - however the big increase in consumption in some commodities which this eventually implies will be the ingredient which turns around the metals sector. In spite of the general doom and gloom on this thread regarding the Japanese market, I think we are at the tail end of a very long discounting of historical damage which has already occurred suggesting that a BIG move up in the Japanese market may just be around the corner. As demand for commodities from these economies revives, possibly stimulated by lower oil prices, the surprise will be bounce in the metals sector in general, including gold. I view the gold market as oversold now, with a lot of stale bearish liquidation on low volumes. Pessimism on the internet is high with lots of triumphant gold bears making their appearance - they weren't visible a year ago. Please note I am not a conspiracy theorist or perma-bull on gold, but I do agree (at this time) that a nice rally is order. I have been out of golds for over a year and a half, since August of 1996, when my studies indicated that the TSEGold Index was historically massively overvalued compared with the Composite Index. (2.4x). It is now under .9 (below the level set when the last big gold bear that I remember was basing at around 1.2). This is undervalued, I believe. I've began to accumulate some gold plays like long Barrick Jan 25 for 2000 Leaps, TXV Gold (Covered Option Write at 3.65/short Jan. 4 calls), and long Farallon Resources (T.FAN).

Cheers to all...