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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (38619)	7/4/2013 6:09:01 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

St Paul (the virgin ) also knew very well he was introducing nothing original into the mix, most of what was good all borrowed philosophies, moral tenants & practices that had already been discussed at great length & introduced by the philosophers 300-500yrs earlier , right down to women wearing head covers to church. He was pretty much anti~marriage advocating celibacy, as were most of the early Christian fathers were idealist virgins erroneously thinking the world was near coming to an end. There goes your good Christian ideal of marriage down the toilet, it was better to be unwed dimmy, what a beautiful way to get people to be "good", tell them they are all soon going to die: Marriage and early Church Fathers Building on what they saw the example of Jesus and Paul advocating, some early Church Fathers placed less value on the family and saw celibacy and freedom from family ties as a preferable state. Nicene Fathers such as Augustine believed that marriage was a sacrament because it was a symbol used by Paul to express Christ's love of the Church. However, there was also an apocalyptic dimension in his teaching, and he was clear that if everybody stopped marrying and having children that would be an admirable thing; it would mean that the Kingdom of God would return all the sooner and the world would come to an end. [68] Such a view reflects the Manichaean past of Augustine. While upholding the New Testament teaching that marriage is "honourable in all and the bed undefiled," [69] Augustine believed that "yet, whenever it comes to the actual process of generation, the very embrace which is lawful and honourable cannot be effected without the ardour of lust...This is the carnal concupiscence, which, while it is no longer accounted sin in the regenerate, yet in no case happens to nature except from sin." [70] Both Tertullian and Gregory of Nyssa were church fathers who were married. They each stressed that the happiness of marriage was ultimately rooted in misery. They saw marriage as a state of bondage that could only be cured by celibacy. They wrote that at the very least, the virgin woman could expect release from the "governance of a husband and the chains of children." [71]:p.151 Tertullian argued that second marriage, having been freed from the first by death,"will have to be termed no other than a species of fornication," partly based on the reasoning that this involves desiring to marry a women out of sexual ardor, which a Christian convert is to avoid. [72] Also advocating celibacy and virginity as preferable alternatives to marriage, Jerome wrote: "It is not disparaging wedlock to prefer virginity. No one can make a comparison between two things if one is good and the other evil." [73] On First Corinthians 7:1 he reasons, "It is good, he says, for a man not to touch a woman. If it is good not to touch a woman, it is bad to touch one: for there is no opposite to goodness but badness. But if it be bad and the evil is pardoned, the reason for the concession is to prevent worse evil." [74] St. John Chrysostom wrote: "...virginity is better than marriage, however good.... Celibacy is...an imitation of the angels. Therefore, virginity is as much more honorable than marriage, as the angel is higher than man. But why do I say angel? Christ, Himself, is the glory of virginity." [75] Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, said that the first commandment given to men was to increase and multiply, but now that the earth was full there was no need to continue this process of multiplication. [76] This view of marriage was reflected in the lack of any formal liturgy formulated for marriage in the early Church. No special ceremonial was devised to celebrate Christian marriage—despite the fact that the Church had produced liturgies to celebrate the Eucharist, Baptism and Confirmation. It was not important for a couple to have their nuptials blessed by a priest. People could marry by mutual agreement in the presence of witnesses. [68] At first, the old Roman pagan rite was used by Christians, although modified superficially. The first detailed account of a Christian wedding in the West dates from the 9th century. This system, known as Spousals, persisted after the Reformation. [68]

To: Greg or e who wrote (38619)	7/4/2013 6:29:12 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 69300

So this St Paul (the virgin ) knew very well he was introducing nothing original into the mix,plagiarizing most of what was good all borrowed philosophies, moral tenants & practices that had already been discussed at great length & introduced by the philosophers 300-500yrs earlier , right down to women wearing head covers to church. He was pretty much anti~marriage advocating celibacy, as were most of the early Christian fathers were idealist virgins erroneously thinking the world was near coming to an end. So here goes your good Christian ideal of marriage down the toilet, it was better to be unwed dimmy, what a beautiful way to get people to be "good", tell them they are all soon going to die or else. (and get to sing with the virgin Angels) Marriage and early Church Fathers Building on what they saw the example of Jesus and Paul advocating, some early Church Fathers placed less value on the family and saw celibacy and freedom from family ties as a preferable state. Nicene Fathers such as Augustine believed that marriage was a sacrament because it was a symbol used by Paul to express Christ's love of the Church. However, there was also an apocalyptic dimension in his teaching, and he was clear that if everybody stopped marrying and having children that would be an admirable thing; it would mean that the Kingdom of God would return all the sooner and the world would come to an end. [68] Such a view reflects the Manichaean past of Augustine. While upholding the New Testament teaching that marriage is "honourable in all and the bed undefiled," [69] Augustine believed that "yet, whenever it comes to the actual process of generation, the very embrace which is lawful and honourable cannot be effected without the ardour of lust...This is the carnal concupiscence, which, while it is no longer accounted sin in the regenerate, yet in no case happens to nature except from sin." [70] Both Tertullian and Gregory of Nyssa were church fathers who were married. They each stressed that the happiness of marriage was ultimately rooted in misery. They saw marriage as a state of bondage that could only be cured by celibacy. They wrote that at the very least, the virgin woman could expect release from the "governance of a husband and the chains of children." [71]:p.151 Tertullian argued that second marriage, having been freed from the first by death,"will have to be termed no other than a species of fornication," partly based on the reasoning that this involves desiring to marry a women out of sexual ardor, which a Christian convert is to avoid. [72] Also advocating celibacy and virginity as preferable alternatives to marriage, Jerome wrote: "It is not disparaging wedlock to prefer virginity. No one can make a comparison between two things if one is good and the other evil." [73] On First Corinthians 7:1 he reasons, "It is good, he says, for a man not to touch a woman. If it is good not to touch a woman, it is bad to touch one: for there is no opposite to goodness but badness. But if it be bad and the evil is pardoned, the reason for the concession is to prevent worse evil." [74] St. John Chrysostom wrote: "...virginity is better than marriage, however good.... Celibacy is...an imitation of the angels. Therefore, virginity is as much more honorable than marriage, as the angel is higher than man. But why do I say angel? Christ, Himself, is the glory of virginity." [75] Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, said that the first commandment given to men was to increase and multiply, but now that the earth was full there was no need to continue this process of multiplication. [76] This view of marriage was reflected in the lack of any formal liturgy formulated for marriage in the early Church. No special ceremonial was devised to celebrate Christian marriage—despite the fact that the Church had produced liturgies to celebrate the Eucharist, Baptism and Confirmation. It was not important for a couple to have their nuptials blessed by a priest. People could marry by mutual agreement in the presence of witnesses. [68] At first, the old Roman pagan rite was used by Christians, although modified superficially. The first detailed account of a Christian wedding in the West dates from the 9th century. This system, known as Spousals, persisted after the Reformation. [68]

To: Greg or e who wrote (38619)	7/4/2013 6:32:34 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

St. John Chrysostom wrote: "...virginity is better than marriage, however good.... Celibacy is...an imitation of the angels. Therefore, virginity is as much more honorable than marriage, as the angel is higher than man. But why do I say angel? Christ, Himself, is the glory of virginity." [75] Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, said that the first commandment given to men was to increase and multiply, but now that the earth was full there was no need to continue this process of multiplication. [76] What incredible theology of impending doom this is and this by all the great early Church fathers unamimously across the board. At least pious nimrod Cyprian finally gets it, that there are too many of us on the planet, and that was 240ad in Rome. Try justifying morality when there 9Bil people on the planet in another 20yrs dimmy then wait till you see that world in 2100 when there's 11bil people. And they all wont be so lucky to live in Springs Texas...