To: Steve Lokness who wrote (228470 ) 7/28/2013 10:10:19 AM From: epicure Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 543258 The problem with libertarianism is that we've always been social animals. Ancient societies were even more intrusive than ours, because survival was more likely to be at stake. We've only been able to loosen the bonds of personal freedom because food is plentiful. What libertarians don't seem to get is that society is a cooperative adventure, and some people aren't cooperative. For those people you need government, and in a complex world like ours, where one sticky cog can screw up a lot, you need a lot of government. Libertarians often seem to yearn for some sort of wild west- but what they don't own up to, is that they want all the freedom of that west, with none of the consequences. In their dream world people assume the risk, or pay individually, for crucial services we now enjoy. With the societal spreading of the payments we enjoy a much better average lifestyle than we could if individuals were trying to shoulder these costs. Are there inefficiencies? Sure. But if you look at lifestyle, comfort, and societal harmony, those societies with more socialism have greater peace and quality of life. It is anti-social to want to destroy that. Obviously there will always be some portion of the population that is anti-social, but I'm not sure why anyone, other than the anti-social, would glorify that. Ayn Rand was the epitome of an anti-social individual. She had no children, and no stake in society to speak of. She thought none of societies rules really ought to apply to her. She took advantage of all the benefits a social society had to offer her, while hypocritically advocating positions that would have destroyed the very society she enjoyed. Human society was built on self sacrifice, shared goals, and cooperation. No matter what society you look at, these goals are enshrined in both religion and government. It's why we honor the military- as they are one of the highest examples of those 3 primary values. Ayn Rand wasn't capable of any of them- unless you consider "shared goals" to mean agreeing with Ayn. There will always be libertarians, because there will always be people who are nurtured by a system who turn on it, because they think that's intellectual. What they really are, are free riders with the freedom, because of a complex social system they want to pick apart, to destroy the very thing that allows them to have their quirky ideas. It's exactly like the folks who are anti-democracy having the freedom in a democracy to espouse the destruction of very thing that allows them to speak their minds.