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Politics : President Barack Obama -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (135642)	8/11/2013 10:31:43 AM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

All that I know about black families then was that they were denied the rights and opportunities by the whites who had them. Besides, I would not debate what happened in the past. Instead I would look to the future and see what it takes to get there. And what I see some suggest here is that instead of tackling social and infrastructure problems overseas such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, we need to tackle problems here by building good schools and community centers in the projects, hiring the best social scientists in these and catching the young folks so that they grow up to be outside the influence of their elders on welfare.

To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (135642)	8/11/2013 12:25:49 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

It is true that what I do know about is white middle class society in the 1950's. And in that culture a woman could not become a mother without a husband--or if she did she would suffer severe social consequences. What you say is true for the white middle class in the 1950s. It was not true for poor whites or upper class whites for varying reasons. (Probably had to leave town to have the baby and then give up the baby for adoption.) So for the most part white woman did not have children out of wedlock and children grew up in two parent families (there was also great social stigma associated with divorce and it was infrequent and "scandalous" when it occurred). These social and cultural conventions restricted people's choices, but it did make for a whole lot of family stability. And children grew with an economic model of at least one working parent and that parent was working hard. Even at its peak in the 1950s, the traditional family was not the majority.....despite their frequent presence in popular media: Married couples represented just 48 percent of American households in 2010, according to data being made public Thursday and analyzed by the Brookings Institution. This was slightly less than in 2000, but far below the 78 percent of households occupied by married couples in 1950. What is more, just a fifth of households were traditional families — married couples with children — down from about a quarter a decade ago, and from 43 percent in 1950, as the iconic image of the American family continues to break apart. nytimes.com Maybe all it took was 43% to give society more stability but what we also know is that the 1950s hid a whole bunch of negative issues...........discrimination against women, illegal abortions, discrimination against gays, the Jim Crow South and red lining in the northern cities. I do not know the status of Black families during this time. My impression is that it tried to mimic the White culture's standards, more or less, but if you know different let us hear about it since you've said held yourself out as knowledgeable person on this subject. There aren't a lot of studies about blacks in the 1950s.......esp middle class blacks. When you are a despised minority, there isn't a lot of grant money to do studies. What we do know is that blacks were in the midst of a second migration from the South to the North; that in and of itself would not lend to family stability; that Jim Crow was still in place in the South; that discrimination in northern cities was rampant; then women outnumbered men and that the black middle class was very small. Interestingly enough, the gender imbalance between men and women has worsened in the black community since the 1950s: “Worst yet,” he wrote, “the gender imbalance in East Orange is not some grotesque anomaly. It’s a vivid snapshot of a very troubling reality in black America.” Tilove noted that nationwide adult black women outnumber black men by 2 million. With nearly another million black men in prison or the military, the reality in most black communities across the country is an even greater imbalance–a gap of 2.8 million, or 26 percent, according to Census Bureau figures for 2002. The comparable disparity for whites was 8 percent. In some cities the gap is even higher. There are more than 30 percent more black women than men in Baltimore, New Orleans, Chicago and Cleveland. In New York City the number is 36 percent and in Philadelphia, 37 percent. As the black population ages, the gap widens. “By the time people reach their 60s in East Orange, there are 47 percent more black women than men,” Tilove wrote. inthesetimes.com What were black families like in the 50's? Where two parents the role model? Where black women stigmatized if they had kids out of wedlock back then? My experience of blacks was in the 1960s and 1970s. I lived in a neighborhood that bordered on a growing black neighborhood in a northern city. Neighbors were quickly moving to the suburbs. My family couldn't because my father had died and my mother didn't command the income that my father had. I remember the fear among whites and how blacks were demonized. Fear destroyed many of our cities and racial ignorance has inhibited this nation's progress.

To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (135642)	8/11/2013 2:46:43 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

Do you think this was good????? <<It is true that what I do know about is white middle class society in the 1950's. And in that culture a woman could not become a mother without a husband--or if she did she would suffer severe social consequences. (Probably had to leave town to have the baby and then give up the baby for adoption.) So for the most part white woman did not have children out of wedlock and children grew up in two parent families (there was also great social stigma associated with divorce and it was infrequent and "scandalous" when it occurred).

To: Bread Upon The Water who wrote (135642)

8/11/2013 2:57:38 PM

From: koan

Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 149317

Socialism is what has worked. All the western countries are more humane and civilized today than at any other time in history because of socialism.

100 years ago abject poverty was pervasive in western countries. Today with universal democracy and attendant socialism, we have social safety nets, universal health care and comprehensive education.

We had none of those 100 years ago when we had pure capitalism, more or less.

Every single western democracy has universal health care, except us. So socialism has given every person health care except for the one country controlled by a party which hates socialism.

So millions go without health insurance because of a lack of socialism.