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Politics : President Barack Obama -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (135826)	8/15/2013 1:25:50 PM
From: Bread Upon The Water	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

My criteria is that a child of a disadvantaged family reaches adulthood with options for survival beyond drugs and illegal activities. Education provides that alternative. We agree on that goal. Where we may disagree is whether or not education in its present state, alone, can achieve that, and what it would take, that is measurable, to make it an effective remedy. People are not widgets. Their thinking process is organic. You can give them all the benefits and they will reject it for something negative. That notwithstanding, we need to do the right thing........which is give all America's kids the same quality education and provide them with options when deciding their future. We agree on that also. So what are we arguing about here? Probably the methodology and measurements used to attempt to achieve this. Which leads us to your third point below. Stats be damned! You are looking at stats, IMHO, as some kind of weapon to be used against your goals. I am looking at them as tools that can tell us how to get there, and, if the goals are achievable. Stats ARE a double edged sword that can cut both ways, but if used correctly (neutrally) they can provide feedback to tell one the progress, or lack thereof, of particular program or project. And if used like this they can be used to make the project successful, or inform one when, if it isn't successful, a different approach must be used. Let us see what else we can agree on. The following questions are all answered yes by me, so if you disagree with any of them just type a No after those and a brief reason why you disagree, if you would, so I know the basis of your thinking on the matter. 1. People over 18 and under 65 should work to support themselves if they are able to with the exception of women with children under 2 (for over two kids quality daycare). 2. Any discussion of welfare at the national government level needs to involve politicians of both parties as the money needed to make welfare successful (according to the goals agreed upon above) would need the approval of both parties. 3. It has not yet been proven that education alone can remedy the problems faced by disadvantaged kids. 4. People should be given the applicable skills, if possible, to move themselves off welfare. 5. We need a discussion at the national level as to whether a marriage by a welfare recipient should cause a reduction of benefits. OK it is my thought that answers to the above may help us see how far apart we are.

To: tejek who wrote (135826)	8/15/2013 2:35:34 PM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 149317

What is the race of folks who are committing white collar crimes? Martha Stewart, MF Global, etc. etc. The Tea Party seems to ignore those crimes and point their finger at the powerless AA and Hispanic communities. But soon this is going to stop. It is good to see Obama and Holder taking on the task of revamping our criminal justice system. Good to see the Supreme Court putting on the screws on the California justice system. The law enforcement community have made it their profession to lie, cheat, coach witnesses etc. irrespective of whether they should ensure the return of criminals to the community through rehab programs.

To: tejek who wrote (135826)	8/15/2013 5:51:28 PM
From: Metacomet	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 149317

...what's missing is political will...specifically the unanimous nay-saying of all Republicans.. "There is debate about the effectiveness of certain early education programs such as Head Start. It may be that providing help to “at-risk families” — treating drug-addicted mothers for example — has a bigger impact on children than a specific enrichment program. Though, clearly, most of us believe that these enrichment programs work. Corak points out that the well-off in the United States spend nearly $9,000 a year on books, computers, child care and summer camps — nearly seven times what families in the bottom fifth of earners spend. In fact, this is part of what makes mobility low. In any event, what’s apparent is that countries — and most parts of the United States — that invest heavily in all their children’s health care, nutrition and education end up with a much stronger ladder of opportunity and access. And that’s something we can change. So if we want to restore the American dream, we now have the beginnings of a path forward." washingtonpost.com

To: tejek who wrote (135826)	8/15/2013 10:33:07 PM
From: robert a belfer	Respond to of 149317

My criteria is that a child of a disadvantaged family reaches adulthood with options for survival beyond drugs and illegal activities. Education provides that alternative. That could not be more right. It is exactly what a black kid told me when I was a recruiter in the bowels of Detroit in 1990. That was 23 years ago. He came into my office with a high school diploma in hand and could not get an AFQT of 24. WHO'S FUCKING FAULT IS THAT. How many generations will the left piss away to win an election. Get your head out of your ass. They have been robbed. "Upon taking office, Rhee immediately began to make a series of radical changes that relied on top-down accountability and results from standardized tests. [17] She said there was no time to waste because children were being robbed of their futures." en.wikipedia.org