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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (749529)	10/25/2013 11:16:31 PM
From: SilentZ	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573958

>You mean the banks hired a bunch of thugs, got the poor customers down onto the ground, and said, "We don't care what you say, you're going to sign here"? Very close to it. I've met a couple of people who worked in that industry during the heyday of subprime mortgages and they didn't say "We don't care what you say, you're going to sign here." They were told by there bosses "say anything you have to to get the person to sign there. It doesn't matter if it's truthful or not." Why? Securitization. These companies didn't care if those mortgages weren't paid in three years -- they'd be out of their hands in three months. They made money either way, and they made more money by just selling. That was the model. >I think you missed my point. In pursuing the excessive savers, the so-called "Keynesians" ended up punishing everybody else. Who is "everybody" else? Mayyyyybe people who make like three-quarters of a million a year. But that's so far from "everybody." I'm guessing it probably isn't you. >Hey, I can hate on rich assholes, just like you do. The one I'm focused on right now is Carl Icahn. What a tool. "Activist investor" my ass. >Ultimately, though, Carl Icahn has little to do with my own well-being. He can't raise any taxes on me. The government can, all because they want to go after the Carl Icahns and the Paulsons and even the "Tax me more" Buffetts of this nation. >Yeah, I'm not buying that excuse. Holy fuck, Ten. That's another word you just don't know the meaning of. "Excuse." How is what I said an "excuse?" It might be an argument you disagree with, but I gave you an economics-based explanation (in fact, I even ran it by an economist friend right after I posted it to make totally sure it was right -- he called me out on a grammatical error but told me I had my facts straight) and you just called it an "excuse" rather than actively debating. You seem to do that quite often. But get this straight... it's not an "excuse." It is longtime, widely-held, economic theory. You can give me data otherwise, or you can make a values-based argument like "it doesn't matter whether it's not a good thing for a lot of people in the economy or not -- it's just wrong to confiscate wealth," but to declare victory and go home... well, that's what you did. And you're wrong on Icahn for a completely different reason, as well. He could hurt you. What if he facilitated a buyout of Intel and gutted its engineering department for his own personal gain? He did that to Motorola's R&D. Why should one guy have that kind of power? And, by the way, pretty much ALL billionaires do that sort of thing. Why? Because they can. I've seen it firsthand. And you don't even know they're doing it a lot of the time. -Z

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (749529)	10/25/2013 11:21:42 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573958

That wasn't what happened. Work backwards from events. What actually caused the crash! It was that banks around the world realized they could not mark to market because no one knew what was in those bundles of shit loans stamped triple AAA by Standard and Poors and Moodys? No quantifiable collateral. Go back and look at what the libor did that day. It went up like a rocket. The banks were making no doc loans to anyone and making huge commissions and knowing the government would back them up. It had less to do with pushing people into loans, as everyone taking out loans and gambling on the real estate market. I watched it happen. << The banks didn't just give credit cards and subprime mortgages. They pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed them. You mean the banks hired a bunch of thugs, got the poor customers down onto the ground, and said, "We don't care what you say, you're going to sign here"? << The banks didn't just give credit cards and subprime mortgages. They pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed them. You mean the banks hired a bunch of thugs, got the poor customers down onto the ground, and said, "We don't care what you say, you're going to sign here"?