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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: koan who wrote (751100)11/4/2013 3:22:30 AM
From: Bilow  Respond to of 1576402
 
Hi koan; Re: "The Republican's in 1860 were the liberal party; and they were in the north. As I recall the other two parties split the conservative vote.";

Your recollection is incorrect. There were 4 parties that took states in the electoral contest of 1860.

Let me remind you that I provided you with a peer reviewed history paper showing that the Republicans were the conservative party throughout their history. You've provided nothing other than your own opinion.

But let's take a look at the wikipedia article on the founding of the Democrat and Republican parties. Maybe we can learn something from them.

The Democratic Party evolved from the Jeffersonian Republican or Democratic-Republican Party organized by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison in opposition to the Federalist party of Alexander Hamilton and John Adams. The party favored republicanism, a weak federal government, states' rights, agrarian interests (especially Southern planters) and strict adherence to the Constitution; it opposed a national bank, close ties to Great Britain, and business and banking interests. The Party came to power in the election of 1800.

After the War of 1812, the Federalists virtually disappeared and the Jeffersonian party split into factions. They split over the choice of a successor to President James Monroe, and the party faction that supported many of the old Jeffersonian principles, led by Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren, became the Democratic Party. Other factions led by Henry Clay helped form the Whig Party. The Democratic Party had a small advantage over the Whigs until the 1850s, when the Whigs fell apart over the issue of slavery. In 1854, angry with the Kansas–Nebraska Act, anti-slavery Democrats left the party and joined Northern Whigs to form the Republican Party. [8] [

en.wikipedia.org

Okay, so we've established that the Democrat party was the party of Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren, while the Republican party arose from the followers of Henry Clay. Let's see what wikipedia says about them:

Andrew Jackson, Democrat

A polarizing figure who dominated the Second Party System in the 1820s and 1830s, as president he dismantled the Second Bank of the United States and initiated forced relocation and resettlement of Native American tribes from the Southeast to west of the Mississippi River. His enthusiastic followers created the modern Democratic Party. The 1830–1850 period later became known as the era of Jacksonian democracy.

He was a wealthy slaveholder. He fought politically against what he denounced as a closed, undemocratic aristocracy, adding to his appeal to common citizens. He expanded the spoils system during his presidency to strengthen his political base.

Strongly against the national bank, he vetoed the renewal of its charter and ensured its collapse. Whigs and moralists denounced his aggressive enforcement of the Indian Removal Act, which resulted in the forced relocation of thousands of Native Americans to Indian Territory (now Oklahoma). Historians acknowledge his protection of popular democracy and individual liberty for United States citizens, but criticize his support for slavery and his role in Indian removal. [3] [4]

en.wikipedia.org

Henry Clay, Whig / Republican

Abraham Lincoln, the Whig leader in Illinois, was a great admirer of Clay, saying he was "my ideal of a great man." Lincoln wholeheartedly supported Clay's economic programs. [4]
...
After the conclusion of the War of 1812, British factories were overwhelming American ports with inexpensive goods. To persuade voters in the western states to support the tariff, Clay advocated federal government support for internal improvements to infrastructure, principally roads and canals. These internal improvements would be financed by the tariff and by sale of the public lands, prices for which would be kept high to generate revenue. Finally, a national bank would stabilize the currency and serve as the nexus of a truly national financial system.

Clay's American System ran into strong opposition from President Jackson's administration. One of the most important points of contention between the two men was over the Maysville Road. Jackson vetoed a bill which would authorize federal funding for a project to construct a road linking Lexington and the Ohio River, the entirety of which would be in the state of Kentucky, because he felt that it did not constitute interstate commerce, as specified in the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.

en.wikipedia.org

Now what are you going to argue? That the Whigs were the "liberal" party while the Democrats were the "conservatives?" Maybe you should look up the famous lawsuit where one of Henry Clay's slaves sued him for freedom based on the promise of a previous master *before* you conclude that the Republicans were the "liberal" party of the time.

-- Carl

P.S. As I've said before, the reason for your confusion is that you don't know the difference between "liberal" and "tolerant".



To: koan who wrote (751100)11/4/2013 8:53:42 AM
From: Brumar892 Recommendations

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TideGlider

  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1576402
 
Again, if the Republicans were liberals why didn't they enact all the great liberal ideas during their period of one party rule from the Civil War through the mid-1870's? How is it that they let coal-powered railroads lay track across the continent and let Rockefeller start Standard Oil during this period?

The GOP had virtual one party rule from the Civil War through the mid-1870's.

The House was Republican controlled till 1874. The Senate till 1878. And the Democrats weren't competitive in Presidential elections till 1876, when Republican Rutherford B Hayes won by one electoral vote.

So if northern Republicans were so liberal, why didn't they make the US a liberal paradise when they had the chance?

Why didn't the northern liberal Republicans establish gay marriage, transgender bathroom rights in public schools, abolish school prayer, ban crosses from public sight, establish mandatory unions in all industry, establish universal healthcare, universal child care, social security for retirees, shutdown the coal industry, prevent the Standard Oil Trust and oil industry from getting started (Rockefeller's first refinery was built in 1873)? They could have put the US on a green transgendered path when they had the chance. Why they didn't appoint a single dyke to the Supreme Court! Instead they worked to return the US to the gold standard. What's liberal about that?