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Politics : Manmade Global Warming, A hoax? A Scam? or a Doomsday Cult? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Don Hurst who wrote (3523)	1/7/2014 7:29:03 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie	Respond to of 4326

You are right, I used the wrong word. The word I should have used is "value". The cost/benefit ratio of solar, for most people, does not favor solar. If it did, people would voluntarily implement solar en masse, just as they have with indoor plumbing. So what are the perceived benefits of Solar: -It's not a fossil fuel -One time cost and then free from electricity bills forever (or 20 years, whichever comes first) -Not bound by electric grid infrastructure What are the liabilities? -Costs much more than fossil fuels -Horrible source for baseload power. Night and clouds.....bad juju for solar -The one time cost is if you fund the whole thing yourself. If you contract with one of the solar electric companies, they own the equipment on your roof and sell you the electricity for about a penny less per kwh than your regular power company. On a $150 bill, you would save about $10. If you purchase the equipment yourself, the ROI is 20 to 30 years. Which, when you factor in the cost of money and the lifespan of the solar panels, is not a good deal. -To go off the grid, you would need to buy a battery bank that would provide your power needs for several days (to plan for the proverbial and actual rainy day.) -If you stay connected to the grid and are with one of those solar power companies, if there is a power outtage, you are still subject to that power outtage. Crazy, I know, but it is true. You have those solar panels on the roof pumping out electrons and you don't have any more protection from power outtages than the guy next door who doesn't have solar panels. -If you went with one of those solar power companies, they now have a lien on your home. They have the right to go up on your roof to perform maintenance and they have the right to require financing from future purchasers of your home. Scares me to think what would happen if you didn't pay your bill for a couple of months. For most people, the benefits don't outweigh the costs. For some, that feeling of self-righteousness knowing that they are not polluting the air with that toxic CO2 provides enough of a high that it outweighs the dollar and "other" costs. And those people should implement solar. However, their perceived value doesn't necessarily agree with my perceived value, so they should not be able to force me to facilitate their solution based on their values. And to be clear, I am not coming up with ways to prevent solar solutions, I am looking for ways to stop the destruction of an industry, our economy and our individual right to make decisions for ourselves as we see fit.

To: Don Hurst who wrote (3523)	1/8/2014 12:52:44 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4326

I have been a paid up photovoltaic fan club member for 30 years. But as a potential solution for a wider range of supply issues rather than as a matter of environmental religion. Photovoltaics had seemed likely to gain competitiveness but that process has been slower than I thought it would be. <Instead of coming up with ways to prevent solar solutions it is time for all of us, you especially, with your knowledge and expertise to come up with ways to make it happen instead of viewing it as something such as Maurice does...Hitler and Brown shirt stuff.> My old company, BP, had a division BP Solar [now shut due to the losses as competition took off in recent years] and I was coming up with applications for photovoltaics in the late 1980s. Unlike air pollution from things such as lead in gasoline, soot emissions from diesel and nitrogen oxides, benzene and other nasties, which affect everyone and need to be controlled as a matter of public policy, photovoltaics are of benefit to the owner of the panels with no public pollution issue. If people want to buy photovoltaics, that's up to them. There's no need for a government department to get involved. People can calculate their costs, risks, and decide for themselves whether the supply profile will be for them or not. The burden of government is very large these days. Adding to the burden is a very bad idea. One of the problems with Big Brother government is that they ban people from coming up with individual solutions. So, for example, an outhouse, or indoor improved dunny would see a fleet of Brownshirts on the attack. A BP colleague in his student days had been working on plasma incineration of human poop as a disposal mechanism. A city would be less liable to have sewerage problems if instead of a large centralized system, everyone had individual on-site disposal methods. People with gardens could have composting systems such as we used on a hippie commune a few years ago when we had a few days holiday there. It was very clean and with a nice view over the hills and forests while sitting a very nice experience [admittedly not raining at the time]. Mqurice