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Politics : Manmade Global Warming, A hoax? A Scam? or a Doomsday Cult? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Don Hurst who wrote (3566)	1/12/2014 3:17:11 PM
From: longnshort	1 Recommendation Recommended By J.B.C. Respond to of 4326

it's the concrete and asphalt that hold heat, doesn't make the rest of the planet any warmer. one reason why some temp numbers are up because they are taking temps in the same place as 100 year ago

To: Don Hurst who wrote (3566)	1/12/2014 4:46:48 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie	2 Recommendations Recommended By J.B.C. weatherguru Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 4326

Maybe you can elaborate on this comment, particularly the "FOR SURE" and what you mean by "1/2 hardiness". Also, re "closed minds"; if you think any of the naysayers on this board will have any "open mind" about your "anthropogenic GW is that in large cities definitely show some" comment, well I won't say it...OK, I will...I got a bridge for sale... Actually, this is one of the things that us skeptics have been most critical about with the AGW scientologist's methods. There are absolutely measurable ground temperature differentials between a cities and areas covered by vegetation. Cities are called "heat Islands" because the asphalt and rooftops absorb the energy and then radiate it back out locally. Many of the temperature measuring stations that are referenced in the studies started out in open fields, and then as the area developed, became surrounded by buildings and roads. Scientific accuracy when measuring a variable is a function of the reduction of other variables. If you can't eliminate all obvious variables, then you must at least identify them. It has been proven that, not only did many of the measuring stations have changed environments (from rural to city), but in some cases they were located adjacent to heating vents on buildings. Referring to the heat island effect found in cities as AGW is, of course, contradictory. There is nothing global about it. It is all local. You can see (feel, measure) the same effect in the lava fields in hawaii or, if in California on I40 on the way out to Needles at the Pisgah Volcano lava fields, or on the Hwy 395 east of Little Lake, or just a little bit further north at Red Hill. Exposed basaltic lava flows mimic the heat island effects found on asphalt covered areas in cities. That being said, are the skeptics really the ones with closed minds? (edit: longnshort said it with a lot fewer words, but yeah...what he said)

To: Don Hurst who wrote (3566)	1/13/2014 2:28:54 PM
From: Cogito Ergo Sum	Respond to of 4326

Within the GTA, the specifics of your landscape can push you higher or lower. Close to Lake Ontario, you're more likely to be Zone 6b and might have a microclimate (a pocket that is a zone unto itself) that's Zone 7. In a more exposed situation, or farther from the lake, you might be Canadian Zone 5a or 5b. [GTA=Greater Toronto Area] torontogardens.blogspot.ca The lake is definitely a big factor but away from the city east or west along the shores the zone is cooler period. about 1/2 or more.. I am on the eastern edge of Toronto and likely 6b with a small 7 patch ... I've been gardening and experimenting extensively for twenty years on this property and have a good handle on what lives and what does not... As insulation techniques get better and the use of green roofs/walls becomes more widespread etc etc .. more solar capture.. the cities can stop radiating as much... people are lazy though... and many rah rah ers for green do not understand the changes they will need make and what they may need forsake.. Imagine in this city of 2.5 million (teeny tiny really) if we could put mass transit underground where it belongs (except for buses.. they are just fine) and get rid of surface rail/subways (LOL surface subways) and medieval tram cars.. .. only the buses can be counted on in the cold... hah.. wide ranging topic.. democracy with politicians focused on being elected above all.. really gets in the way... too bad there is nothing better :o( Neil Young is up her bashing oilsands... do you think he drove his 'Tesla' up here from Cali or flew ... :O)