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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (767031)	1/30/2014 2:43:01 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576348

Henry 'North Pole starting to evaporate' Waxman will retire after this term. This is bad cause it's holding down the tundra: From an interview on NPR as relayed by Tavis Smiley: “We’re seeing the reality of a lot of the North Pole starting to evaporate, and we could get to a tipping point. Because if it evaporates to a certain point – they have lanes now where ships can go that couldn’t ever sail through before. And if it gets to a point where it evaporates too much, there’s a lot of tundra that’s being held down by that ice cap..” wattsupwiththat.com

To: koan who wrote (767031)	1/30/2014 5:36:57 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576348

Many have tried and many have failed to explain the problem we have with your logic on this issue. I am not likely to do any better than anyone else but here goes another shot at it. Since you refuse to define your term I will presume by "hard fact" you mean a fact believed to be proven by scientific evidence. Science does not study non-physical phenoma...not the right tool. We don't use auto-mechanics tools to design software... wrong tools. Science is a tool, an instrument of exploration, discovery and such. All tools have their place and all tools have their limits, and science is no different. Science is an excellent tool when used within its limits. I would not saw a board with a compass. A compass is a fine instrument with a definite usefulness. I don't hammer with microscopes and I don't analyse microbes with a hammer. The limits of scientific study start with the ability to observe and provide predictive, replicable, and reliable results based on observation of physical phenomenon, that is what it does, that is what it is good at but that also defines its limits. To require hard facts (physical proof) on the subject of theology is similar to requiring the disection of a gnats dick using a backhoe to prove a gnat has a dick. Wrong tool. I notice you avoided answering my question about awareness... The systematic study of concepts related to theology require different tools, tools we all possess but some refuse to employ. The same tools we use to understand things like "awareness". What is the nature of awareness? What is the nature of truth? What is the nature of justice? What is the nature of love and hate? What is the nature of purpose? What is the nature of Consciousness? What is the nature of reason? What is existence/non-existence? Why is there experience? Why is there something instead of nothing? etc. What tools do we use to understand this sort of fact? I am not going to attempt to use science to prove something science is not suited for, wrong tool. The hard facts challenge you keep forwarding is a false dichotomy. The fact that Science produces hard facts is not proof that there is no other source of understanding and determining fact. Be careful, you could make yourself crazy trying to force a scientific explanation for things in which there is none but which obviously exist.

To: koan who wrote (767031)	1/31/2014 11:49:44 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1576348

Everyone knows what a hard fact is. Tell me one hard fact. One! When people refer to facts as hard facts, I call them naive. When someone claims to have objective evidence of God I call them a charlatan. Still we do use facts, and I am no exception, I just don't accept any hard fact of existence in the physical sense to be indisputable. On the other hand we all agree awareness is a real phenomenon and that is an indisputable fact. Likewise we can find agreement on most of those nonphysical phenomenon I presented for you (and you avoided).