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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: 2MAR$ who wrote (45933)2/1/2014 9:17:12 AM
From: Brumar89  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
Sorry, but you have no appreciation for Genghis Khan's ferocity.

It is estimated that Genghis Khan killed 11.1% of total world population during his conquests

scifacts.net

.... In 1210, with Genghis Khan at their head, the Mongol armies attacked the northern state of the Chinese Kin empire. With military genius but inhuman ferocity, the Mongols destroyed almost the entire population of large areas of China.

The development of the genocidal military technology of the Mongols arose from their honed hunting skills and the co-ordination of large troop movements to achieve, originally hunting, but ultimately military, objectives. After the formation of the union of the tribes, the Mongols hunted by cordoning off “hunting parks” or game areas of seven to ten thousand square miles, areas limited on one or two sides by rivers or mountains and limited on the other side or sides by the galloping lines of Mongol troops. These troops could and did terrify the wild animals by riding noisily along the open grasslands of their continually closing cordon, so that all the game was systematically concentrated into a pre-planned killing ground of about six to ten square miles, where all animals could be butchered after the Great Khan arrived. Only fish, birds, rodents and small mammals seemed to have escaped that process. This procedure honed key transferable hunting and military skills - such as the consideration of the most effective military strategy to dominate a large area, the rapid and centrally coordinated movement of horsemen on several fronts, and the gauntlet for the mass murder of game. Marco Polo described, with no little astonishment, this hunting park activity in detail after he visited the court of Kublai Khan. Mongol activity wiped out virtually all large game in vast areas of central Asia, and created enormous grasslands which were free from herbivores, as some have remained to the present day.

Returning in 1224, having been denied military help with his western campaign by the state of Hsia, Genghis Khan's army fell upon and totally destroyed the state of Hsia. As one history of the world comments, the Mongols:

"...blew up like a hurricane to terrify half a dozen civilisations, slaughtered and destroyed on a scale the 20th century alone has emulated, and then disappeared almost as suddenly as they came."
J. M. Roberts, "A History of the World," Hutchinson, London, 1976, p299.

which is a very European viewpoint - the Mongols ruled China for more than a century after its first conquest, although the Yuan dynasty established by Kublai Khan ruled from 1271 to 1368. The death of Genghis Khan on 18 August 1227 saved Europe from the fate that had befallen China, because the Mongol armies operating in Europe all withdrew to Karakorum for a gathering of the tribes to decide who would be the next Khan. Genghis died in the campaign to put down the rebellion of the Hsia kingdom. As one source comments

“On his deathbed, he ordered that Xi Xia [Hsia] be wiped from the face of the earth. Obedient as always, Khan's successors leveled whole cities and towns, killing or enslaving all their inhabitants.” See

history.com

And as Fitzgerald further comments:
"According to the Chinese history not more than one hundredth part of the population survived, the countryside was covered with human bones, the cities left desolate. The north-west has never recovered from this disaster. Many of the border cities were never reoccupied, and have been invaded by the drifting sands of the [Taklimakan] desert. The irrigation works fell into decay for lack of attention, and the country reverted to steppe."
C.P Fitzgerald, "China - A Short Cultural History", Century Hutchinson, Melbourne, p 433.

This was, of course, what the Mongols wanted - more “hunting parks”, and more grassland for their horses. The destruction of the population in North West China altered the regional balance of Chinese civilisation which became almost entirely southern-dominated when it had previously been northern-led.

The Mongols were by far the most pitiless mass murderers in history: they had a rule that if, when the Mongols were laying siege to a city, one child threw one stone at one invading Mongol soldier, then everyone and everything in the city should be killed. They did not always do this, but they usually did. The Mongol programme for area-clearing and city massacre was very similar to their animal clearing activities in the steppe - destroy all the lightly-defended small towns and farming communities, killing all the inhabitants; construct walls around, invest and conquer cities; then drive all of the people out of the city into giant concentration camps (first invented by the Mongols) one for men, one for women and children; thoroughly loot the city, concentrating on the movable assets which could be carried away on horseback; kill all the men, kill all the children, rape and kill all the women. The whole population of captured cities were often marched through one city gate, all other exits having been closed, and the people were often corralled, as animals sometimes still are in slaughter-houses, through a baffle, so that they could not see what was happening ahead of them; each person was systematically beheaded in an almost industrial process, the heads being stacked in neat pyramids, the tally of murders per man day being counted, until the massacre was complete. After the capture or surrender of a city, each soldier of whatever rank had to butcher an equal number of captives - the Mongols only had a democracy in butchery. The quota of the required number of beheadings per soldier was sometimes several hundred. The Mongols probably killed a greater proportion of the population of the world than any other people before or since. In the Middle East, the Mongols created pyramids of human heads to avoid any possible recovery of the wounded or any escape by anyone hiding among the dead. This was what they also did to the Hsia population.

In my view the Mongols were the pre-industrial equivalent of atomic war. They destroyed previously flourishing cities and regions. They halved the 12th century population of China by killing nearly everyone in the cradle of Chinese civilisation, in the “land within the passes” of Northern and North West China. The almost complete massacre of the Hsia population altered the balance of Chinese civilisation from northern-dominated to Southern-led. As Professor C P Fitzgerald has commented:

Fitzgerald continues:

“A region which in T'ang times had been wealthy and cultured, as the Buddhist Scriptures and cave monasteries prove, became a semi-desert, the poorest and most backward part of the Chinese Empire."

C.P Fitzgerald, "China - A Short Cultural History", Century Hutchinson, Melbourne, p 433.

5 The Stillborn Chinese Industrial Revolution in the 13th Century

Prior to this depopulation, North West China had been a great centre of innovation, and may have been the area from which many of the fundamental cultural innovations of paper, gunpowder, and small, toy, steam engines may have originated (although the exploitation of some of these developments was carried forward in southern China.) The intriguing possibility exists that the outbreak of the industrial revolution was stopped dead in China in the early thirteenth century due to the genocidal Mongols. The people who created the wealth of the region had been completely massacred. Again, Fitzgerald comments:

"It has been suggested that the advancing economy of the Southern Sung, its superb handicraftmanship, the development of overseas commerce and the growth of industries such as silk and porcelain, which worked in large part for export and increasingly in concentrated centres of production, had reached a point where it would be natural to have been succeeded by an industrial revolution and the development of a machine technology.[...] If this could have happened, it was frustrated by events in the north. The Mongols, under the redoubtable Chingiz Khan, had overthrown the Kin dynasty, and they too soon turned south to attack the Sung."
Professor C.P. Fitzgerald, "The History of China to 1840", essay contained in "China's Three Thousand Years," Times Newspapers Ltd, 1973.

The Mongols probably halved the population of China. Even when the population of cities was spared, the previous population levels could often not be maintained because the Mongols had, on the way to the cities, killed nearly all the farmers and farm workers who had fed the cities. Conquered cities often rebelled after submission because of that. Many historians find it difficult to believe that so many people could have been killed by the Mongols, because where cities were occasionally spared only the countryside dwellers had been directly killed by Mongol butchery. But the Mongols destroyed the carrying capacity of the farms because they wanted grasslands for their horses and hunting parks for wild animals, so countryside murders and city massacre was the general rule until Yelu Ch’u-ts’ai, convinced Kublai Khan that it was better to spare the population of Kaifeng, turning them into a source of riches and revenue rather than corpses, to enrich Karakorum.

[ What that means is that an enslaved Chinese convinced Kublai Khan it would be more profitable to, from then on, conquer and tax the Chinese than to kill them all. Prior to that, the plan was to wipe out China entirely! ]

The Mongols were only superior to the Chinese in in military technology - much of which had been adopted from Chinese contact - firearms, cannon, iron bombs, etc. The only aspect of development in which the Mongols were interested was military technology, which they were constantly looking to improve. The sparing of Kaifeng gave the Mongols the additional Chinese military capabilities (the cannon, fire bombs and gunpowder based weaponry) without which they would not have been able to defeat the Southern Sung. The sparing of Kaifeng was therefore a mixed blessing, sparing the city’s population, but paving the way to the Mongol (Yuan) dynasty in China.

Professor C P Fitzgerald concluded that the Mongol invasion and rule was all pain and no gain to Chinese civilisation, and it is difficult not to agree with that conclusion.

londonprogressivejournal.com



To: 2MAR$ who wrote (45933)2/1/2014 9:47:39 PM
From: Greg or e  Respond to of 69300
 
Love Requires Wrath against Evil

Croatian theologian Miroslav Volf wrote in his book Free of Charge:

I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn’t God love? Shouldn’t divine love be beyond wrath? God is love, and God loves every person and every creature. That’s exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God’s wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, the region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalized beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandparently fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming the perpetrators’ basic goodness? Wasn’t God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God’s wrath, I came to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn’t wrathful at the sight of the world’s evil. God isn’t wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love.

For more on God’s wrath and love, see “God Solved the Justice/Grace Problem” and “How Tim Keller Made Peace with the Wrath of God.”

(HT: White Horse Inn’s interview with Paul Copan on “Is God a Moral Monster?”) - See more at: str.typepad.com



To: 2MAR$ who wrote (45933)2/1/2014 9:50:12 PM
From: Greg or e  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
So you do agree that Evil should be punished by God????? It looks like you're running away from the question.



To: 2MAR$ who wrote (45933)2/2/2014 7:35:05 AM
From: Solon  Respond to of 69300
 
"When i think of evil, i think of medieval torture. And when i think of Genghis Khan who was the scourge of all the world & the height of terrorism for an age, he was a sissy compared to the devasting horrors only Christians could dream up, you just don't know your history. The greatest monsters that ever lived,have always worn the cross, it was your legacy from the empire of Roman pagans that assimilated you, but you never knew."


Message 29364560



To: 2MAR$ who wrote (45933)2/2/2014 9:02:21 PM
From: Greg or e  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
"What is the Big Deal about Sin?"

by Dan Phillips

From 2006 to 2012, PyroManiacs turned out almost-daily updates from the Post-Evangelical wasteland -- usually to the fear and loathing of more-polite and more-irenic bloggers and readers. The results lurk in the archives of this blog in spite of the hope of many that Google will "accidentally" swallow these words and pictures whole.

This feature enters the murky depths of the archives to fish out the classic hits from the golden age of internet drubbings.

The following except was written by Dan back in January 2010. Dan explains why sin is infinitely more than "some stupid rule."

As usual, the comments are closed.

Non-Christians are baffled by what seems to be the Christian obsession with "sin." To the non-Christian, "sin" often means "unauthorized fun," or "fun that breaks some dumb rule," or "fun that I don't want to have," or "fun that I really do want to have, but my religion says I shouldn't, so I don't want anyone else to have it, either!"

But it is the conviction of most of the non-religious that sin is not that big of a deal. In fact, sin isn't really bad. I mean, think of our language: if something is better than just good, we say that it is sinfully good.

Sin is just some stupid rule. Stupid rules should never stand in the way of fun, of happiness, of joy, of self-fulfillment, of a life of freedom and self-realization. A hundred movies, a thousand TV episodes, tell tale after tale of some poor noble soul oppressed by joyless, loveless, graceless, dour, dessicated, usually hypocritical religionists.

The problem with this line of thought is that it starts off with a wrong step, and never corrects course.

The way the world thinks about sin starts with the assumption that man is the measure of all things. Whether the talk is of "enlightened self-interest," or the heart's best impulses, or the "angels of our better nature," or what-have-you, the assumption is that man is both alpha and omega. Maybe an individual man, or maybe the human consensus of an enlightened society — but the assumption is that morality bubbles up from within. It can be divined by a poll, which often turns out to be a poll of one.

The problem with that is that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" ( Genesis 1:1). You see, with its very first words, the Bible turns our thinking on its head. We don't define our universe. We don't create meaning. We come into a universe already created, already defined, with already-assigned values and borders and lines and definitions.

That reality is absolutely fundamental to all thought. Undervalue it, and wisdom remains under lock and key.

Were that not true, then common thinking is correct: man is both alpha and omega. However, since it is not true, neither is man-centered thought true. Before the whirl of the first atom, God existed: self-sufficient, self-delighted, the font of all perfection. When He created, He created. All things are His things. All creatures are His creatures. He owns, possesses, has rights over all things.

Including you, whoever you are.

You may pound your chest and insist you're an atheist. God overrides your vote. God exists in defiance of your notions. God owns you. You will answer to Him one day, for every thought, action and word.

Or you may be a religionist, a relativist, a post-modernist, or a nothingist. No matter. Those are all labels applicable to you, and they are all irrelevant to reality.

In reality, God is the center of the universe. He is its source, its creator, its owner, and its definer.

Sin is my refusal to deal with reality — specifically, with the game-changing reality of God. Sin is my insistence on being self-defining (as if there were no God), self-ruling (as if there were no God), self-pleasing (as if there were no God). In fact, sin is living as if there were no God. It makes me the opposite of the real Jesus Christ; it makes me an anti-christ.

In fact, sin is the desire that there be no God. Sin sees God as the great obstacle. Sin wishes there to be no such obstacle. Therefore, sin wishes there to be no such God as the God of the Bible. Therefore sin is, at heart, a desire to murder God; and all sin is attempted Deicide.

All of which is simply to say: to me, I am God.

Which is a very, very old lie. Because, you see, the thing is: you aren't. God is.

And that's what makes sin a big deal.


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