SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Politics for Conservatives -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: unclewest who wrote (28731)4/19/2014 4:44:04 PM
From: prometheus19767 Recommendations

Recommended By
CF Rebel
FJB
Geoff Altman
gh
Honey_Bee

and 2 more members

  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 124640
 
"The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded."
-French political philosopher C. L. De Montesquieu (1689-1755)



To: unclewest who wrote (28731)4/19/2014 8:29:39 PM
From: sense  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 124640
 
The issues are made (deliberately) confusing through a couple of sleights of hand that operate in politics...

You see that sleight of hand being made plain, in part, in the "survey" showing who is racist and who is not...
Message 29496143
while the LABELS applied in politics today are purposefully deceptive in relation to the issues.

We know that the differences between liberals and conservatives... is not a difference that defines that one set of ideas and beliefs as naturally racist, while the other set are naturally not racist. However, if politicians can sell that idea... and gain an advantage from it, they will.

Race, obviously, is not an inherently ideological issue. The color of your skin might well condition how you perceive many things based on your experience of the world and others in it... but, it shouldn't have much impact on how you perceive "ultimate truth" ? However, race can easily enough be converted into one of those "issues of the day" that politicians use to create division... in order to exploit divisions as a distraction from the value in fundamental ideas... without having any meaningful interest in the divisions they foster for any other reason than exploiting them. Politicians seek advantage where they find it... and discard the elements they claim as "fundamental" when it suits their purpose, just as readily.

In politics, at least, the distinctions made between "liberal" and "conservative" policies, as those are attached to and used in defining party brands, are often distinctions of convenience, taken on for political reasons and no other, while not being about attachment to fundamental principles.

So, in that context, it is clearly useful to try to understand what is fundamental, and what is not ?

Race divisions in politics... used to mean Democrats up north were (classical) liberal populists, like Franklin, Jefferson, and Jackson, who favored democracy and free markets, and who were opposed to corporate monopolies, central banks, and the growth of Federal power. Democrats down south were far more socially conservative, white, racist, southern plantation owners. Republicans were northerners, dogmatically religious, do-gooders and abolitionists... who favored the growth and expanding power of the Federal government at the expense of the states sovereignty and rights. That alignment held through the civil war... and really only began to change in the 1950's, as a function of purposeful political strategy. Then, many elected Democrats who were KKK members... were suddenly re-postured as being the champions of the underdogs, as that was re-defined along racial lines. And, under Nixon, Republicans who had fought a war to abolish slave holders rights to own people as property, opted to adopt a "southern strategy" that was designed and intended to win by appealing to the southern white vote that Democrats were abandoning.

Having been defeated in the civil war, southern Democrats didn't quit being racist demagogues on principle... they just undertook an effort to switch sides in the race war as an item of political convenience... which is why you saw Democrat George Wallace barring access to the University of Alabama... blog.al.com while the Federal government called out the National Guard to force the gates open... at the direction of Democrat President Kennedy, and, later, Johnson. Why do Kennedy conspiracy theories focus on ideology instead of race ?

Anyway... the point is... race is not a fundamental issue in politics... but it is often used by being made into an element of team affiliation... with Democrats still exploiting it and seeking to foster division along racial lines.

Race was made a fundamental issue only by the insistence as the Civil War approached, that states rights trumped the Constitution in guaranteeing states the right to impose slavery as an institution... but, the Democrats lost that argument in the Civil War. Today, people are not the property of others. But, the Civil War also DID NOT covert us from being a free people... into being the property of the Federal Government.

The Democrats, today... have surrendered on the slavery issue, but only as far as it considers the individual right to own another person as property... while still insisting that having surrendered that as an individual right, or the right of a state to choose, that there must still be a collective form of ownership of people. That unthinking and unstated view is wholly consistent with the EUROPEAN concept of national sovereignty... but wholly inconsistent with the AMERICAN concept of a Constitutionally limited government, inviolable individual rights... with the people (and not a King, a committee, or an Aristocracy) as the self appointed sovereigns.

That Democrats were wrong about their advocacy of owning slaves... makes them just as wrong, today, in advocating an shift from private ownership to public ownership of people, under the un-American conception of sovereignty... that relegates people to being owned as the property of the government.




To: unclewest who wrote (28731)4/19/2014 8:36:57 PM
From: sense  Respond to of 124640
 
In context of my prior post in reply to yours, considering race... this should help clarify much of the confusion that exists in the shifting lines in politics, today... that is about topics other than race:

This is taken from "A collection of the political writings of William Leggett" openlibrary.org

Leggett was a newspaper editor... a Democrat... (and not an abolitionist) here writing on the exact subject of the differences between the parties (ignoring the issues of race and slavery) as he saw it... in 1834:

THE DIVISION OF PARTIES.

[From the Evening Post, November 4, 1834.]
Since the organization of the Government of the
United States the people of this country have been divi
ded into two great parties. One of these parties has un
dergone various changes of name ; the other has con
tinued steadfast alike to its appellation and to its princi
ples, and is now, as it was at first, the DEMOCRACY.
Both parties have ever contended for the same opposite
ends which originally caused the division whatever
may have been, at different times, the particular means
which furnished the immediate subject of dispute. The
great object of the struggles of the Democracy has been
to confine the action of the General Government within
the limits marked out in the Constitution : the great ob
ject of the party opposed to the Democracy has ever been
to overleap those boundaries, and give to the General
Government greater powers and a wider field for their
exercise. The doctrine of the one party is that all pow
er not expressly and clearly delegated to the General
Government, remains with the States and with the Peo
ple : the doctrine of the other party is that the vigour
and efficacy of the General Government should be
strengthened by a free construction of its powers. The
one party sees danger from the encroachments of the
General Government ; the other affects to see danger
from the encroachments of the States.

This original line of separation between the two
great political parties of the republic, though it existed
under the old Confederation, and was distinctly marked
in the controversy which preceded the formation and
adoption of the present Constitution, was greatly widen
ed and strengthened by the project of a National Bank,
brought forward in 1791. This was the first great ques
tion which occurred under the new Constitution to test
whether the provisions of that instrument were to be in
terpreted according to their strict and literal meaning ;
or whether they might be stretched to include objects
and powers which had never been delegated to the Gen
eral Government, and which consequently still resided
with the states as separate sovereignties.

The proposition of the Bank was recommended by the
Secretary of the Treasury on the ground that such an in
stitution would be " of primary importance to the prosper
ous administration of the finances, and of the greatest
utility in the operations connected with the support of pub
lic credit." This scheme, then, as now, was opposed on
various grounds ; but the constitutional objection consti
tuted then, as it does at the present day, the main reason of
the uncompromising and invincible hostility of the de
mocracy to the measure. They considered it as the ex
ercise of a very important power which had never been
given by the states or the people to the General Govern
ment, and which the General Government could not
therefore exercise without being guilty of usurpation.
Those who contended that the Government possessed the
power, effected their immediate object ; but the contro-
versy still exists. And it is of no consequence to tell
the democracy that it is now established by various pre
cedents, and by decisions of the Supreme Court, that
this power is fairly incidental to certain other powers
expressly granted ; for this is only telling them that the
advocates of free construction have, at times, had the
ascendancy in the Executive and Legislative, and, at all
times, in the Judiciary department of the Government.
The Bank question stands now on precisely the same
footing that it originally did ; it is now, as it was at first,
a matter of controversy between the two great parties of
this country between parties as opposite as day and
night ^-between parties which contend, one for the conso
lidation and enlargement of the powers of the General
Government, and the other for strictly limiting that
Government to the objects for which it was instituted,
and to the exercise of the means with which it was en
trusted. The one party is for a popular Government ;
the other for an aristocracy. The one party is compos
ed, in a great measure, of the farmers, mechanics,
labourers, and other producers of the middling and low
er classes, (according to the common gradation by the
scale of wealth,) and the other of the consumers, the rich,
the proud, the privileged of those who, if our Government
were converted into an aristocracy, would become our
dukes, lords, marquises and baronets. The question is
still disputed between these two parties it is ever a new
question and whether the democracy or the aristocracy
shall succeed in the present struggle, the fight will be re
newed, whenever the defeated party shall be again able to
muster strength enough to take the field. The privilege
of self-government is one which the people will never be
permitted to enjoy unmolested. Power and wealth are
continually stealing from the many to the few. There
is a class continually gaining ground in the community,
who desire to monopolize the advantages of the Govern-
ment, to hedge themselves round with exclusive privileges,
and elevate themselves at the expense of the great body
of the people. These, in our society, are emphatically
the aristocracy ; and these, with all such as their means
of persuasion, or corruption, or intimidation, can move to
act with them, constitute the party which are now strug-
ling against the democracy, for the perpetuation of an
odious and dangerous moneyed institution.

Putting out of view, for the present, all other objections
to the United States Bank, that it is a monopoly, that
it possesses enormous and overshadowing power, that it
has been most corruptly managed, and that it is identified
with political leaders to whom the people of the United
States must ever be strongly opposed the constitutional
objection alone is an insurmountable objection to it.

The Government of the United States is a limited
sovereignty. The powers which it may exercise are ex-
pressly enumerated in the Constitution. None not thus
stated, or that are not " necessary and proper" to carry
those which are stated into effect, can be allowed to be ex
ercised by it. The power to establish a bank is not ex-
pressly given ; neither is incidental ; since it cannot be
shown to be " necessary" to carry the powers which
are given, or any of them, into effect. That power can-
not therefore be exercised without transcending the Con-
stitutional limits.

This is the democratic argument stated in its briefest
form. The aristocratic argument in favour of the
power is founded on the dangerous heresy that the Con-
stitution says one thing, and means another. That ne
cessary does not mean necessary, but simply convenient.
By a mode of reasoning not looser than this it would be
easy to prove that our Government ought to be changed
into a Monarchy, Henry Clay crowned King, and the op-
position members of the Senate made peers of the realm ;
and power, place and perquisites given to them and
their heirs forever.