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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (258803)	8/23/2014 9:09:05 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 543114

A couple of responses. The argument of the reviewer was not about directing students to major in the liberal arts, though it's not a bad idea. It's about getting a liberal education while in college, which one can do by majoring in any number of things, if the curriculum is structured correctly. Moreover, it's even more to the point of the philosophy of education that undergirds a college, that provides the structure of incentives for the faculty, and so on. Not which program students tend to major in. A second response. There's data, don't have it right now, that gets thrown around every time this issue comes up in higher ed, that shows that students who majored in one of the liberal arts tend to do much better in jobs than students that major in business, engineering, and so on. That is, in its crassest terms, make more money and rise to higher positions of authority. The argument goes that technical training prepares students for mid level work, at best. But that philosophy, history, english, and so on, enlarges the imagination, leads to more creative, long term thinking, the sort of skill needed to the higher reaches. And, my guess is, these folk tend to go onto law school, grad school, and even business school. I've heard it argued that the best students in graduate level business programs tend to be students who did not major in business as undergrads. Rather in philosophy, history, english, and so on. I've always disliked the second argument because majoring in philosophy, history, english, and so on shouldn't be about making the most money or running the largest corporation. But rather about learning about the human condition, how to think critically, the long scope of culture, and so on. But then what the hell.

To: epicure who wrote (258803)

8/24/2014 5:04:49 PM

From: koan

Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 543114

I don't say people have to spend their life taking liberal arts classes. But I do think everyone in college would benefit from a year or two of them.

Liberal arts is the path to wisdom and self actualization. Can't do without it. We do not deduce knowledge, we learn it.

Engineering has nothing to do with wisdom and self actualization. A life without wisdom and self actualization seems pretty depressing to me.

Actually what is even the point?

And I guess my experiences are different than yours. I found few wise people floundering. Maybe they do not make as much as an engineer, but what they lack in quantity they make up for in quality, for they are wise and do not make as many mistakes in life; and certainly usually live a more fulfilled and beautiful life.

IMO..

<<

That's a lot of threads. I agree on state and federal, and municipal employees. But as far as the liberal arts education- I don't think it's a particularly good idea if you want a job. Students I know who went in to engineering, business and science, have jobs. Students who went for liberal arts degrees are working minimum wage jobs. I advise against "the dream" of majoring in philosophy or history, unless students want to teach those subjects, because it's really hard to find a job.

I thought the article was making the point that new grads at the ivy colleges were being directed to high paying jobs (presumably soulless ones)- but at least they have good jobs. Direct them to the liberal arts, and "meaningful" jobs, and they will be unemployed or not be able to buy a house. Now you could argue that salaries are out of whack- and I wouldn't disagree in all cases, but nothing will be done about that.