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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greg or e who wrote (58148)9/18/2014 8:32:56 AM
From: Solon  Respond to of 69300
 
Before you close up the rabbit hole you are cringing in, we have a repeat of several unanswered questions!!

Is there a secret code in Genesis such that a "day" is not a day and such that the "morning" and the "evening" of the "day" are secret codes for something else??

Are the genealogies in the bible accurate or are they a secret code??

Is Science accurate when it claims that the ages of the earth and the universe are approximately 9 BILLION years apart? Or is it more accurate to say that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days?

When God rested on the seventh day--how many hours did he rest?

When God commanded man to keep the seventh day Holy, was he using a secret code or was he referring to the sort of day that we find in a week?

When the Israelites murdered the old man for gathering sticks on God's Holy day of rest, were they thinking of a secret code in Genesis where a "day" was not a day??

Did dinosaurs and humans present on the same day in history...or did dinosaurs precede humans? Did humans exist when dinosaurs roamed the earth 208 to 145 million years ago during the "Jurassic" period?

If Genesis does not mean what it says--if Genesis is a code written by Moses before God buried him in the mountains...is there any point in anybody mindlessly reading this code without knowing what it really means? Isn't it somehow wrong to have people misinterpreting the Divine words of God when they do not know the secret code??

Are members of your church working assiduously to decipher the secret code of Genesis or do they simply shrug and say, "it doan matter, Mabel! The bible doesn't contradict Science because the bible is a code! Let the scientists figure out the code, Mabel. Thems so damn smart!!"



To: Greg or e who wrote (58148)9/18/2014 9:20:20 AM
From: Solon  Respond to of 69300
 
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS??? God directly commands that an old man be executed for gathering sticks on a particular "DAY". He claims that working on this "DAY" pisses him off because he rested on this "DAY" after creating 'heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them'. But you said something about a day in Genesis not really being a day? It was some sort of code? But God walked right into the camp of Moses and ORDERED them to kill that old man for something he was doing on a day that was certainly not a code for anything!!!

What do you make of that??? We are all ears!!!!!!!!!

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

— Exodus 20:8-11 (ESV)

While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:32-36:




To: Greg or e who wrote (58148)9/18/2014 3:36:41 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 69300
 
Ahhhhh! Such a wise, uplifting, moral, and DIVINE book! :-)

"Judges 11:29 Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD : “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break.”

36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”

38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

From this comes the Israelite custom 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

This story was possibly read on Sunday mornings during my life, but not often. I have a beautiful daughter, and I can not imagine, under any circumstances, doing what this man of faith did. It is hard for me to even type the words “burned his daughter alive” when thinking of myself as a father. I have read many excuses for the actions of God and Jephthah, but none make any sense to me. Some excuse God by claiming this was all Jephthah’s fault, but note that “the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah.” God could have caused an animal to come out of the door of Jephthah’s house, but he did not. God could have said “you do not have to kill your daughter” but he did not. God could have provided an animal at the last moment as a replacement (as with Abraham and Isaac), but he did not.

This story seems to be saying that good, god-fearing people should be willing to burn their children to death if that is required to keep a promise to God.

In the new testament, Jephthah is noted as a man of great faith to be emulated (see below). Do biblical inerrantists really believe that someone who kills his own child is a model for all Christians to follow?

Hebrews 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies."

rarebible.wordpress.com



To: Greg or e who wrote (58148)9/18/2014 3:43:01 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 69300
 
rarebible.wordpress.com

"Now I will get into another reason why I have not blogged so much. Christian apologists are some of the most dishonest people I have ever met. They are first and foremost dishonest to themselves. If they read these verses in the Koran, they would be the first to scream about how the Koran has a contradiction. But because they read this contradiction in the bible, they go to extravagant lengths to make up excuses for the contradiction."

"It has been a few months since my last post. I have been doing more in promoting the atheist community in Louisville and Kentucky. These activities, such as the state fair booth and the Kentucky Freethought Convention, are about promoting something true and good (atheism), while this website is more about demonstrating that something (the bible) is not accurate. I enjoy promoting what is positive more than demonstrating something is in error.

However, after continuous comments from readers and noticing that this blog is constantly receiving 300 to 400 hits per day, I decided to have at least one new post per month. I have decided to blog about biblical contradictions as well as “bible verses rarely read on Sunday.”

In the two passages above, there is a clear contradiction on the timing of the withering of the fig tree. In Mark 11 Jesus curses the fig tree, drives out capitalists from the Temple, and his disciples notice the tree is withered the next morning. In Matthew 21 Jesus drives the capitalists out of the Temple, then he curses the fig tree and it “immediately” withers. Both stories can not be literally true.

Another problem is that all-knowing Christian god did not know that it was not the season for figs to appear on fig trees. Jesus “went to find out if it had any fruit“, which clearly means he did not know whether or not it had fruit. Another question raised is why did Jesus curse this tree? Was he angry at the tree? And one more claim of this verse is that if “if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.” If any Christian apologist can cause Mount Everest to be thrown into the sea, I will stop this blog and concede that the bible is the inerrant word of god. I am not worried about losing this challenge, but I still challenge all those who comment on this blog to prove me wrong.

Now I will get into another reason why I have not blogged so much. Christian apologists are some of the most dishonest people I have ever met. They are first and foremost dishonest to themselves. If they read these verses in the Koran, they would be the first to scream about how the Koran has a contradiction. But because they read this contradiction in the bible, they go to extravagant lengths to make up excuses for the contradiction.

Two examples of Christian apologies (the first two to pop up in Google) include Christian Courier ( https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/790-fig-tree-incident-a-contradiction-the) and Answers in Genesis ( http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2012/07/17/contradictions-figuring-out). In regards to the timing of the fig tree withering, both of them talk about Mark being chronological and Matthew being “topical”. They claim Mark has the correct sequence of events in regards to what happens on what day and that Matthew is simply putting the fig tree lesson as a topic separate from the Temple events. However, let us review the Matthew verses to see if it is also implying a chronology.

12 Jesus entered the temple courts…17 And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night…18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city…Immediately the tree withered.

Both apologists are incorrect when they claim that Matthew was not listing events in a specific chronology. The author of Matthew uses multiple phrases to indicate a specific order of events, and the order of events in Matthew clearly contradicts the order of events in Mark.

The apologists make multiple assertions that are unsupported by the verses. They both claim that the tree does or could represent Israel.

Observing this fruitless tree, Jesus pronounced a “curse” (i.e., a withering judgment) upon the tree as a symbolic preview of that punishment which ultimately would befall the Hebrew nation (A.D. 70).

Many scholars believe the fig tree represented Israel, or at least her leaders in Jerusalem, since fruitless fig trees are often used symbolically in reference to judgment ( Jeremiah 8:13; Joel 1:7). If this is accurate then Jesus was showing what would soon come to pass as God’s judgment would fall on the nation.

However, the verses say nothing about the tree representing Israel. As previously noted, Jesus “went to find out if it had any fruit”. The bible does NOT say he want out to the tree to teach a lesson about Israel. These apologists are basically saying “the bible means what we say it means, not what it says.”

I included the New King James Version of Matthew 21, because it divides the fig tree story into “The Fig Tree Withered” and “The Lesson Of The Fig Tree Withered.” Bible publishers do all kinds of things to make the bible echo the doctrines of the publishers, and they also do things to try to eliminate contradictions (i.e. Yahweh and Elohim are both translated as god in the flood story; sub-headings are added to Matthew and Luke nativity stories to mask contradictions; etc). This could be what the NKJV publishers did by separating these five verses (18-22) into two sections.

Lastly, regarding the ignorance of Jesus concerning fig trees, Answers in Genesis wrote

I can just imagine the disciples thinking, “That was strange. Jesus should know that figs come later in the season.” Of course, Jesus knew that—He created the fig tree.

However, the claims of the apologist are once again contradicted by the words of the bible: “Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit.” If he knew “that figs come later in the season”[Answers in Genesis] then he would not need to “find out if it had any fruit”[bible].

Last of all, I included some of the footnotes in the NIV verses to show examples of how manuscripts deviate from each other. There are hundreds of thousands of different variations of text in early New Testament manuscripts. I recommend reading Misquoting Jesus or Jesus Interrupted by Bart Ehrman for further information on manuscript variation."

_____________________


thebricktestament.com

Mark 11 (New International Version)Jesus Curses a Fig Tree and Clears the Temple Courts12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.

15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple courts and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17 And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations’? But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’”

18 The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.

19 When evening came, Jesus and his disciples[ e] went out of the city.

thebricktestament.com

20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”

22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[ f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26] [ g]

[e]Mark 11:19 Some early manuscripts came, Jesus
[f]Mark 11:23 Some early manuscripts “If you have faith in God,” Jesus answered, 23 “truly
[ g]Mark 11:26 Some manuscripts include here words similar to Matt. 6:15.

Matthew 21 (New International Version)Jesus at the Temple12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

14 The blind and the lame came to him at the temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?”

17 And he left them and went out of the city to Bethany, where he spent the night.

Jesus Curses a Fig Tree18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.

20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

Matthew 21 (New King James Version)The Fig Tree Withered18 Now in the morning, as He returned to the city, He was hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, “Let no fruit grow on you ever again.” Immediately the fig tree withered away.

The Lesson of the Withered Fig Tree20 And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither away so soon?”

21 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. 22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”




To: Greg or e who wrote (58148)9/19/2014 4:53:21 AM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 69300
 
As the analytic philosopher Alvin Plantinga has argued, equating all knowledge with natural science is a logically incoherent position.

Many scientists, who are living, breathing, emoting, experiential human beings actually get out in the real world of time & space and do meticulous field work research. Like many geologists, astronomers anthropologists, archaeologists, botanists & the zoology/biology fields galore.

What does Alvin Platinga do again exactly? Sit on his rear end & preach about what they experience & discover then teach?

He hardly even does this, Alvin Platinga discovers nothing but childish nonsense it is he who is totally incoherent & out of touch....literally.