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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (60084)	10/13/2014 12:01:38 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

"And those who are free of religious faith? Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, the Kims who rule NK, Che & the Castros ..... what are we to blame their crimes on?" Not a profound question and no need for an erudite response. Class struggle and violence is built into the ideology of Communism. It is natural for these "self-chosen" people to help this process along. Ideologies often involve demonization--with clear certainties and divisions to be created and enforced through any and all available means. Similarly, Fascism asserts the primacy of the State and the privilege of leadership--so marginalizing and struggle is again a built-in component. Although ideologies often utilize profound ideas and philosophical polemic, the ideas are often a thinly veiled camouflage of the will to power and the desire to be of the ruling class. Militant ideologies are (surprise) militant. They often create violent upheavals and are therefore something we discuss and question--just as you are doing. Nobody has ever suggested that fascist or Marxist ideologies were benign as compared with religious ideologies. The essence of this thread is to discuss how religious superstitions impact on the progress of society through Science and Reason. This does not imply that only religious ideologies need be feared. Some ideologies are almost religious in their assumption of premises which are without any basis in fact but which serve the interests of a particular group or mind-set. Any ideology which invents premises to suit power and privilege can devastate a society. What is our protection? The answer should be obvious: The social value of Reason over Revelation, and the freedom of our educational system from the infestation of superstitious, irrational, and otherwise gratuitous ideas asserted without any basis in fact. Admittedly, this requires eternal vigilance, as bright minds can be led by their thoughts into so many layers of rationalization that their world view becomes just as absurd as religious superstitions. However, a universal ethic of human rights and freedoms is self sustaining as it opposes all unnatural class structuring. Anyhow, you seem to think that the existence of militant ideologies absolves religious ideologies from examination and judgement? But why? If militant Communism is unhealthy for the victims...why should Chosen People religious proselytization and their unceasing attempts to infiltrate the state, be anything but abhorrent? You rightfully criticise the violence of Stalinism and other such violations of the ethic of human rights and freedoms--but you are enraged that freethinkers and decent people everywhere wish to protect our children from the superstitions and lies of Islam, Christianity--and all other chosen people ideologies based strictly on the ethic of entitlement? Well guess what? We have courses for mythology. And we have courses for world religions. You get your nose out of our Science classrooms, buster! SCAT!

To: Brumar89 who wrote (60084)	10/13/2014 1:55:50 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

How would you know if ancient Hebrews were "barely literate?" .....Oh, that might be because they have found never found anything really "literate" there perhaps? Think you can get your tiny mind around that? What is called 'Biblical' times, is really the 'Egyptian' times or 'Greek times' or 'Assysrian times' as far as real human history goes. The word biblical is a fantasy word & fantasy concept, Hebrews do not even figure into that ancient milieu, scattered tiny illiterate hill tribes at the very most, not even 'Hebrews', perhaps advanced into the sling shot stage of developement. (who knows or cares really?) For all that incredible nonsense about Solomon & David's empire, they've found only one clay pot lid with an inscription in some unknown near eastern language dating to that time. Thats one, as in "1" , as in one only or only one, get the picture? This discovery is beyond pitiful, the entire OT is much later tribal propaganzed fiction, never happened, all made up later to impress the Greeks, like little puffed up fish trying to appear larger than they were. The Greeks wouldn't have minded though, they always loved a good BS story, if just for pure entertainment. This isn't even in Hebrew, just goat herding tribes that later made up the most fantasic bullshit stories the world has ever seen, they definitely had the gift of BS, primitive people's brains tend to get baked in all that sun, poor diets so had wild illiterate fantasies, etc. Greatest BS stories ever sold. Earliest alphabetical inscription from Biblical times found in Jerusalem foxnews.com A 3,000-year-old inscribed piece of an earthenware jug dating back to the time of King David has archaeologists stumped. The ancient inscription is the earliest alphabetical written text ever found in Jerusalem, according to researchers from Hebrew University who discovered the artifact. Working near the Temple Mount, head archaeologist Eilat Mazar uncovered the 10th century B.C.E inscription, engraved on a large pithos, a necklace ceramic jar, along with six others at the Ophel excavation site. The inscription is written in the Canaanite language, a Biblical people who lived in the present-day Israel, and is the only of its kind to be found in Israel. The artifact predates the previously oldest inscription found in the area by 250 years and predates the Biblical Israelites' rule. Reading from left to right, the text is composed of a combination of letters that translate to m, q, p, h, n, (possibly) l, and n and have no known meaning in west-Semitic languages. Archaeologist Eilat Mazar shows off her 3,000-year-old Biblical find. (Key to David's City/Youtube) CHANGE (Key to David's City/Youtube) Previous Next A 3,000-year-old inscribed piece of an earthenware jug dating back to the time of King David has archaeologists stumped. The ancient inscription is the earliest alphabetical written text ever found in Jerusalem, according to researchers from Hebrew University who discovered the artifact. Working near the Temple Mount, head archaeologist Eilat Mazar uncovered the 10th century B.C.E inscription, engraved on a large pithos, a necklace ceramic jar, along with six others at the Ophel excavation site. The inscription is written in the Canaanite language, a Biblical people who lived in the present-day Israel, and is the only of its kind to be found in Israel. The artifact predates the previously oldest inscription found in the area by 250 years and predates the Biblical Israelites' rule. Reading from left to right, the text is composed of a combination of letters that translate to m, q, p, h, n, (possibly) l, and n and have no known meaning in west-Semitic languages. The meaning of the text remains a mystery but Mazar suspects it relates to the jar's contents or the name of its owner.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (60084)	10/13/2014 2:15:51 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 69300

Nobody has ever suggested that fascist or Marxist ideologies were benign as compared with religious ideologies. The essence of this thread is to discuss how religious superstitions impact on the progress of society through Science and Reason. This does not imply that only religious ideologies need be feared. Some ideologies are almost religious in their assumption of premises which are without any basis in fact but which serve the interests of a particular group or mind-set. Not a profound question and no need for an erudite response. Class struggle and violence is built into the ideology of Communism. It is natural for these "self-chosen" people to help this process along. Ideologies often involve demonization--with clear certainties and divisions to be created and enforced through any and all available means. Similarly, Fascism asserts the primacy of the State and the privilege of leadership--so marginalizing and struggle is again a built-in component. Although ideologies often utilize profound ideas and philosophical polemic, the ideas are often a thinly veiled camouflage of the will to power and the desire to be of the ruling class. Militant ideologies are (surprise) militant. They often create violent upheavals and are therefore something we discuss and question--just as you are doing. Any ideology which invents premises to suit power and privilege can devastate a society. What is our protection? The answer should be obvious: The social value of Reason over Revelation, and the freedom of our educational system from the infestation of superstitious, irrational, and otherwise gratuitous ideas asserted without any basis in fact. Admittedly, this requires eternal vigilance, as bright minds can be led by their thoughts into so many layers of rationalization that their world view becomes just as absurd as religious superstitions. However, a universal ethic of human rights and freedoms is self sustaining as it opposes all unnatural class structuring. Anyhow, you seem to think that the existence of militant ideologies absolves religious ideologies from examination and judgement? But why? If militant Communism is unhealthy for the victims...why should Chosen People religious proselytization and their unceasing attempts to infiltrate the state, be anything but abhorrent? You rightfully criticise the violence of Stalinism and other such violations of the ethic of human rights and freedoms--but you are enraged that freethinkers and decent people everywhere wish to protect our children from the superstitions and lies of Islam, Christianity--and all other chosen people ideologies based strictly on the ethic of entitlement? Well guess what? We have courses for mythology. And we have courses for world religions

To: Brumar89 who wrote (60084)	10/13/2014 2:19:30 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 69300

Now, back to the real world , one hates to use the term 'BS' so often, but in fact thats just all it is as far as 'biblical history' goes. There is a concept called 'Human History', thats all we need to know & explore from historical pov, but those 'Biblical' folks aren't fairing too well & never will fair well, back to the original premise, because it was always far later tribal propaganda & fantasy ---->BS. One can study from mythology pov, thats fine place to put it and totally acceptable. (right up there with Joseph Smith & the golden tablets for Jason & The Golden Fleece has more historical reality than that)