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To: combjelly who wrote (862898)	6/5/2015 6:44:22 PM
From: Brumar89	1 Recommendation Recommended By FJB Respond to of 1586854

If ISIS has roots in AQ, then is sure would have existed Bush or no Bush. This blaming everything on America or liberal's domestic American enemies is bullshit.

To: combjelly who wrote (862898)	6/5/2015 6:50:53 PM
From: tejek	Respond to of 1586854

is pretty clear, ISIS would not exist if we had not invaded. An argument could be made that it would have existed in its present form if we had not kicked out the Baathists. But there are reasons to doubt it. It is pretty obvious that ISIS is a creature of the invasion, though. I don't expect Rs to admit to this..........after all, it would mean their vote for Bush was a huge mistake. What bothers me is that what happened in Iraq is too complicated for the average, non R American to understand and that they are buying into the GOP BS that Obama is really the problem.

To: combjelly who wrote (862898)	6/5/2015 7:07:27 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1586854

The radical trends from the past few decades could have made a profit out of anyone who declared a coming caliphate organization. Al Qaeda has promoted the idea from it's beginning, before Al Qaeda there is a long history of radical attempts to institute a caliphate by Sunnis. Islamic literature prophesies a world caliphate coming into governmental rule with Jesus returning to oversee the world religion. On the Shi'ite side Al Sadr claimed he is in touch with the invisible Imam. The Shi'ite version of that prophesy is that the 12th Imam will become visible and pray with Jesus in Mecca, then the Imam will head the world caliphate while Jesus heads the World Religion. Other Shi'ite leaders are obsessing over the return of the 12th Imam. I don't think Obama is the problem, nor is/was Bush. The problem is a successful movement of radical Islam to install itself into power with increasing success and popularity at expanding it's territory and influence with no force willing to take an effective stand against it. ISIS could have been easily demolished in the first week of their invasion of Iraq. The politically correct world forces were caught twiddling then, and they haven't stopped.

To: combjelly who wrote (862898)	6/9/2015 4:10:29 PM
From: Tenchusatsu	Respond to of 1586854

CJ, It is pretty clear, ISIS would not exist if we had not invaded. But you readily admit that an ISIS-like army would have existed if we had not invaded. You then claim that would have been preferable to the ISIS of today, but that's silly because we really don't know what would have been better or worse without the Iraq invasion. Either way, the goal is clear. By shifting the argument over who's to blame for ISIS' existence, you divert attention away from Obama's failures to deal with the threat. Tenchusatsu