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To: micromike who wrote (15218)	12/20/1997 1:00:00 AM
From: nommedeguerre	Respond to of 24154

Mike, "Funny thing is that Java was International Standards Organization (ISO) approved and only a few countries voted against it. Guess which one. U.S.A." Silly foreigners, as if sovereignty grants them the power to go against ActiveX without Bill's permission. You know all the signers are taking the risk of having their licenses pulled on Windows if they continue to "not play along". Open standards spawn growth and innovation; proprietary locks castrate an industry. Take it easy, Norm

To: micromike who wrote (15218)	12/20/1997 1:04:00 AM
From: Charles Hughes	Respond to of 24154

>>>Funny thing is that Java was International Standards Organization (ISO) approved and only a few countries voted against it. Guess which one. U.S.A. I'm a very suspicious guy and I came to the conclusion that MS was behind this but they couldn't control the rest of the world.<<< Not the USA per se. ANSI. Now Sun going straight to the world body, bypassing ANSI, was stepping on toes. Normally the national bodies, like ANSI, submit standards to the world body, ISO. Sun could not get past ANSI because ANSI was not willing to approve a clearly proprietary and not-very-open standard like Java. They like to have public comment, reasoned discussion, and a lot of time. Now I was against Sun on that but I probably was wrong. ISOs other national member organizatios saw what I didn't, namely how crucial time was to having a chance of any kind against Microsoft. So they decided to skip the niceties. I didn't understand how rough the game had to be played until Microsoft decided to push a proprietary so-called 'Java' version that would not have run on anything but Windows. To an extent MSFT has won that one because they have kept Java from having the time and conditions to fully become the truly great development tool it could have been. Probably there will have to be a successor language, and it will take at least five years to get back to doing what we could have done on the Internet in 1998, given the right tool. Because none of the current alternatives are nearly good enough. Chaz

To: micromike who wrote (15218)	12/22/1997 4:03:00 PM
From: Keith Hankin	Respond to of 24154

>>> Funny thing is that Java was International Standards Organization (ISO) approved and only a few countries voted against it. Guess which one. U.S.A. I'm a very suspicious guy and I came to the conclusion that MS was behind this but they couldn't control the rest of the world. Now i'm hoping that they can't control the DOJ and it's looking pretty good so far. I suspect that the reason that USA voted against Java as an ISO standard was because of unwarranted fear of the type Reg has shown -- that voting against MSFT could undermine US dominance in the computer software industry. As for China, who knows. Perhaps they will vote against any standards, so that they can create their own standards through which they can institute heavy controls over Chinese access to the Internet.