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To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (12867)10/18/2015 5:56:16 PM
From: Yorikke1 Recommendation

Recommended By
E. Charters

  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 17056
 
Pogeu, one antioxidant, L-Cystine, tested on some rats with induced prostrate cancer, does not provide convincing evidence that ALL antioxidant's are cancer inducing, or even cancer neutral. I generally tend to agree with a lot of what you present, but even you counter this particular presentation by touting the natural ingredients of vegetables, which you admit are rich in antioxidants, and urge everyone to eat more of.

Let us not let what has been a pretty good discussion of differing points of view degrade into a slug fest of one-off medical studies. Even according to you, it is not below the medical establishment to poo poo any practices or studies which might limit its demand for services or accepted treatment regimes. So if they are 'all' against D3, what makes it any different that 'they' are now against antioxidants?

The body is made to be washed in waves of various substances. It may not be healthy to drown one's self in an anti-oxidant bath every day, and a good wash in a fluid rich in oxidants is likely to be beneficial from time to time. But EC has you on the power side of reliable studies showing that anti-oxidants do far more good than they do harm, and that most of us would greatly benefit from a good dose of a broad spectrum of anti-oxidants regularly.

I will grant that your words of caution are not to be taken lightly by weight lifting mice with chemically induced prostate cancer. Perhaps a warning sign in all rodent gyms against the use of body building powders containing L-cystine is in the cards. (Something quite at the level of today's FDA)




To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (12867)10/20/2015 12:40:30 AM
From: E. Charters  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 17056
 
I read that too. Be cautious and fly not to every new study and quasi study out there. NAC is a particular anti oxidant, and does not necessarily represent all anti oxidants. However it is found naturally in apples and onions, things which I have heard are NOT carcinogenic. And things that kill cancer cells also kill ordinary cells. Does that mean u can take unlimited supply of toxins?

Cancer cells are just like any other cell. Things that make them grow, also make other cells grow. So it is no surprise that they will grow in an environment that is good for other cells. What it did not say is whether there was a concomittant increase in natural killer cells which combat cancers. It would stand to reason there was.

Cancer cells have apoptosis turned off. If u want to target them u have to hit them where they live and use highly targeted specifics.



To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (12867)10/20/2015 12:58:48 AM
From: E. Charters  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 17056
 

It isn't that simple:

"Does N-acetyl cysteine play biased role in cancer ?

I desired to learn out from oncologist working particularly on NAC like antioxidant and cancer. My first query to know regards to the basal expression of NAC in human and does the expression of NAC altered by other nutrient supplements like Indole 3 Carbinol. Surprisingly I found the peaks on basis of NMR and GC study in sera. Now, coming to my query for NAC, since Jan 2014, Nuture news published article on entitle "Antioxidants speed cancer in mice" by Ledford which evidenced by many articals V.I. Sayin et al., “Antioxidants accelerate lung cancer progression in mice,” Science Translational Medicine, 6: 221ra15, 2014 and 2more articles however several of study of decades represents chemopreventive as well as anti cancerous effects of NAC, which it puts in clinical trials. Is it true conclude like antioxidant cause more harms in cancer than good raised by Andy Coghlan and other also. How do you look this?"

"

Shankar:

It is well known that antioxidants are associated with a checkered history in the broad context of their purported potentialities in the chemoprvention of cancer or treatment. Recently, it was reported that the dietary antioxidants, N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) and vitamin E hastened the progression of lung tumorigenesis in mice. Antioxidant activity (AA) is a chemical or molecular property of a compound. Molecules with AA activity can impair the levels of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species (ROS and NOS) in cells. However they also can accentuate the proliferation rate of cancer cells. The consequences are increased tumor burdens and attenuated survival. Impaired expression of the tumor suppressor gene protein, p53, can evoke higher rates of cellular proliferation. Neither NAC and nor vitamin E influenced tumor growth in mice that did not possess p53.

A role for ROS in promoting cell motility during stress situations in leukocytes has been recently reported; treatment with NAC mitigated the increased enhanced, stress-induced migration potential of bone marrow leukocytes."






To: Pogeu Mahone who wrote (12867)10/20/2015 1:12:45 AM
From: E. Charters  Respond to of 17056
 
"The capacity for apoptosis induction by the ROS generator (ATO), arsenic trioxide (As2O3), in MCF-7 cancer cells was reported to be inversely correlated with the cellular levels of GSH (glutathione), a major intracellular antioxidant in mammalian cells. NAC, a precursor of GSH, is efficiently transported into cells unlike GSH. Impeding cancer cell DNA replication and repair and the induction of oxidative stress by the inhibition of both GSH and thioredoxin (Trx) systems have been advanced as cancer chemotherapeutic strategies."

In order to deal with cancers it has been advanced to decrease the antioxidant GSH, which is the major antioxidant of the human body. This is ironic, but does not mean that anti oxidation by itself is a bad thing, now does it? Here they are introducing a toxin, Arsenic Oxide, so they have to reduce anti oxidation in order for it to work. But don't confuse therapy with lifestyle. In general, Arsenic bad, vegetables good.

Just to show your the jury is clearly out --->

"
N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) is an analogue and precursor of glutathione, an intracellular protective reducing equivalent. The antioxidant activity of NAC may have an important role as a chemopreventive agent for cancer progression because of its protective effect against UV-induced cellular damage. 36,37 Several investigations have indicated that NAC prevents the induction and maintenance of DNA damage and progression to cancer in smokers. 38 At the cellular level, NAC has been shown to inhibit endothelial cell invasion and angiogenesis in vitro, presumably because of the inhibition of metalloproteinase activities. 39 Conversely, NAC has been shown to have cytoprotective and anti-genotoxic effects on endothelial cells directly. 40 The chemopreventive activities of NAC have been shown to block tumor growth and angiogenesis in athymic nude mice. 41 Interestingly, NAC therapy was found to be synergistic with doxorubicin in blocking experimental tumorigenesis. 41,42 NAC has also been shown to modulate transcriptional activities through several pathways involving c-fos/c-jun, nuclear factor-?B, STAT, and cyclin inhibitors. 43 Given the possible connection between NAC treatment and reductions in tumor-dependent angiogenesis, it has been reported that one important aspect of NAC effectiveness is to limit the expression of VEGF. 44 This effect seems to be related to possible repression of reactive oxygen species and limiting hypoxia-induced transcription through hypoxia inducible factor-1. 15 Interestingly, it has been shown that the conversion of plasminogen into plasmin by cellular-derived plasminogen activators (uPA, tPA) in the presence of NAC, results in the accumulation of angiostatin in vitro. 45 The possibility that angiostatin formation can be promoted by NAC in which plasminogen activation occurs might provide additional mechanisms whereby antioxidant therapies could affect tumor angiogenesis in vivo."