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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Broken_Clock who wrote (903086)	11/24/2015 10:47:23 PM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1575424

You're blaming Obama for Putin's actions by violating sovereign state in Ukraine & implementing a little dream of a new Soviet empire? That's reaching, Putins smart but now he's got somethings to think about after the shootdown, good going Turks.You know, there's this tribalism that came before nation states, just because they drew a bunch of straight lines on a map, then conflicts from centuries of hatreds & distrust arise, they start killing each other again. Then you have the Shias & Sunni thing going on, more religious fueld insanity, for a 1000yrs or more. We have to undermine the religious/superstition power of the mullahs & ayatolas, education & secularization is the only way to change. Turkey is the template.

To: Broken_Clock who wrote (903086)	11/25/2015 1:24:18 AM
From: combjelly	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1575424

"widely reported" is how propaganda works. You know that, right? It sort of depends. If we are talking about state dominated media, like Sputnik or Russia Today who print something is "widely reported" and it is, in fact not widely reported, it can be regarded as propaganda. If a sampling of news sources from a variety of countries report it, it probably isn't propaganda. You're aware that Obama is violating the spirit of verbal agreements made with the Russkies when the wall came down? Not to intrude in their former zone? No. What former zones might that be? You're aware we (Obama is the CiC) were in Syria destabilizing the sovereign State of Syria prior to Russia coming to Asaad's assistance? Now I do catch a whiff of propaganda. Syria was destabilized, like several states in the region, by the events of the Arab Spring. I suppose you can say that the US had a hand in that because of their prolific production of CO2, but you can hardly lay that solely at the feet of Obama. And we are hardly at the brink of WW3. I suppose it is possible that Erdogan could escalate things with one of their leading trading partners to a much higher level and then invoke NATO's Article 5, but it is pretty unlikely. Turkey is playing their own game right now. They have been inching towards some cross-border actions to carve out a safe zone for the Turkmen in Syria. This is important to Turkey because it would create a buffer between them and the Kurds. Those plans were put on hold because of the Russian involvement in Syria. However, with the Russian tendency to bomb non-Daesh rebels, including the Turkmen, the Turks are getting a little irate. This downing of the Fencer was a shot across the bow for Putin to back off. Whether he will or not is an interesting question. If Obama wanted to go into Syria, you can be darn sure he would have communicated that to Hollande. And he would have invoked Article 5. That didn't happen, Hollande was very careful to avoid even hinting that was the case. There are many players in Syria at the moment. It looks like Putin has figured that they can breeze in and push out all of the players and reshape the conflict the way they want. They also want to showcase that Russia is resurgent and is ready to step into the shoes of the Soviet Union. There are several problems with this, not the least of which their economy is a lot smaller than that of the Soviet Union. Now they do have a formidable nuclear force, but they are lacking in a lot of areas. Their military deteriorated severely from before the fall of the Soviet Union until Putin went on his spending spree. And it shows. While Russia has done a lot of power projection across the globe, their planes have a regrettable habit of falling out of the air while doing so. And the bulk of what they have is no match for even the derated stuff we sell to out allies. Sure, they have some at least near cutting edge stuff. But when there are only a few of them, like in the single digits, that just doesn't go far. Compare the Fencer against the F-16s that shot it down. There was just no contest. So there is no reason for Turkey to back down from the Russians. Nor the French. Nor any of the other NATO members operating in the region. Russia doesn't get to call the shots. When that becomes obvious, I am not sure how that is going to play in Moscow.