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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (10248)	12/26/1997 12:38:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Hi Bob, Please forgive me if I gave the impression that I would condemn anyone.That is what I am coming against I believe God is the only judge of us all. I can see you have a desire to reason the scriptures and I may be a little jumpy . I still can see that it is difficult for us to come into agreement because we are close and far. Surely you are not implying that Moses was in Hades until Jesus went to bring him out. Have you read the account of Lazarus and the rich man. Where was Abraham and the beggar? Is that Hades? I would like to have the verse about Moses being seen after the death of the Lord. In Matthew it says that holy people were raised and came into the city but not Moses. The reason I have a hard time with this is that Moses grave has never been found and no mention of him being buried is ever made as it is with Abraham and David and all the other Patriarchs so they believe he will come with Elijah to announce the Messiah. The 2 witnesses in Revelations would fit this anticipation. To gain salvation there is no exceptions male, female, slave, free, Jew or Gentile, but just as God has an order for men and women He has it with other areas as well. As I said before Jesus Kingdom does not Lord over one another but it is a Kingdom of love and respect for one another so there is no dominance just proof of His faithfulness.In Romans 3:1-4 Paul says;What advantage is then, is there in being a Jew or what value is there in circumcision? Much un every way! First of all , they have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some did not have faith? Will their (Israelis) lack of faith nullify Gods faithfulness? Not at all Let God be true and every man a liar. Also, Simeon says He will be the Glory of His people Israel. Do you also believe that the Church is the true Israel of God in Old and New Testament. That is really hard for me to buy. It just doesn't fit. Why wouldn't God just make everyone the same if He wanted it so.To me the ultimate anti-semetic act is the Church desiring the Jews to just blend in and disappear and nullify Gods faithfulness and the New Covenant made with the House of Israel and Judah. Sounds to me like that would give satan a tremendous victory. In Timothy we see that all scripture is God breathed and good for instruction. So how can so many Christians not even read the Old Testament. They tell me all the time that Covenant (as if it were just one covenant) is obsolete. It is not going to affect salvation for God is true and faithful but there is meat here to move on to. Relationship is my focus, the ones in Matthew that cry out Lord, Lord, did we not do all these things in your name? What is His response? I never knew you. So doing and preaching and posting means nothing without a personal relationship. That is what is missing on this thread not you but so many to me are trying so hard to prove a point that they are not encouraging a relationship with Jesus. That is what breaks my heart the most for the lost is the lost relationship with the One I love so deeply that my entire being is consumed in Him. How could I not want that for everyone and people respond more to that than they do a fear of hell or whatever maybe in another life that is not even real to them yet because they are not filled with the Spirit. I could never think that anyone if they truly understand what is involved would not want to be saved. To me there are at least 2 problems 1 is Jesus said He speaks in parables so they will not hear and be saved.and the other is this poor representation of love and relationship with a Lord that can give them peace that the world can not give and love that is real. I have said before if I were to read this thread as a non-believing Jew I would not want any part of it. As a believer I wonder why I continue for it is not edifying for me. I guess I desire to reason the scriptures. I sincerely do not want you to feel that because we disagree that I condemn or think badly of you for I fear God and Yeshua says that even if we slander another believer we are a murderer, so please forgive my weariness and pray as I am that the Lord will allow us all to come to some type of agreement that will bring Him Glory. Nancy .

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (10248)	12/26/1997 9:21:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Hi Bob, again. I am really interested in the idea that "Jesus descended into hell" and stayed there 3 working days, according to the Bible, and apparently preached to people and brought out souls, etc., and was struck by the lunacy of the thought that Moses was ever in hell, so following that idea I picked up my trusty Strongs, the most exhaustive word concordance known to man, isn't it? Under "hell" there is no scripture peratining to Jesus with association with hell, as in "descended into hell, per my Episcopal creed. Hades is a Greek word, not used in the Bible I could not find it anyway. Anyway, please be kind enough to quote that verse(es) for me about Jesus being in hell for three days, as I'm coming up blank, and I know its there somewhere. It must be, as it has been made a set doctrine. But then there is a seeming contradiction when he says to the thief beside him that "today you will be with me in Paradise". So, all I'm ever after is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but, as everything more than 3 inches away from the scriptures' exact translation is usually wandering out in the boonies somewhere..