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Technology Stocks : MSFT Internet Explorer vs. NSCP Navigator -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: damniseedemons who wrote (15638)	12/28/1997 9:39:00 AM
From: Daniel Schuh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24154

Sal, the integrated TCP/IP is another one of those hoary lines everybody is trotting out now. It's a little better than the Chrylser car radio (why is it Chrysler anyway?). Yes, it's good that Microsoft integrated TCP/IP; it's the kind of thing that should be integrated in the OS, and Microsoft was only 10 years or so behind the times on that one. TCP/IP is a service that requires very timely interaction with your network hardware, and is hard to do well in application code. It's one of those layers of abstractions/virtualization things. The "integrated" browser just isn't the same, no matter how many times you guys say it is. It's the kind of thing that should stay in application code, and if Microsoft puts it in the privileged hardware environment where things like TCP/IP live, they're dumb. I don't think they did that, reading between the lines I think IE is actually pretty well designed. And anyway, if there is a case to be made that IE really is "integrated with the OS", and not just bundled or tied or "integrated" the same way as Word and Excel, Microsoft should make the case and not just say it's too complicated for mere mortals to understand. If they actually said something meaningful, I'd read it respectfully. So far, though, all I've seen is the equivalent of fracturing and fragmenting the integrety and uniformity of Windows, by removing the sacred icon. Oh, and the ever popular "the judge is an idiot", because uninstall means something special for IE. To repeat as usual, I think it'd be absolutely appropriate for the Judge to hold them in contempt, but that's not a legal opinion. Cheers, Dan.

To: damniseedemons who wrote (15638)	12/28/1997 2:32:00 PM
From: Bearded One	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 24154

1) Does anyone complain that Windows95 also shipped with TCP/IP software? Not to say that this is a perfect comparison to the IE is Windows thing, but hey, it's not all that far off, either TCP/IP is not a user interface to a new industry. It is a low-level protocol. So it is very far off. But don't get me wrong--MSFT is stronger than Sun, Oracle, Netscape, etc., so it's no sweat to make enemies out of them! ;) Is Microsoft more powerful than Sun + Oracle + Netscape? Somehow you forgot to mention IBM. Is Microsoft more powerful then IBM? (hint-- check revenues, employees, and earnings last year) Now, what about Sun+Oracle+Netscape+IBM?

To: damniseedemons who wrote (15638)	12/28/1997 7:02:00 PM
From: Charles Hughes	Respond to of 24154

>>> 1) Does anyone complain that Windows95 also shipped with TCP/IP software? Not to say that this is a perfect comparison to the IE is Windows thing, but hey, it's not all that far off, either:<<< Really? a. Microsoft includes other alternative networking drivers to tcp/ip. b. Microsoft does not try to keep anybody else's tcp/ip stack from working, AFAIK. c. TCP/IP is a government standard, which they should have installed years ago, but dragged their feet on because they were trying to sell the proprietary and completely inferior netbuei and other MS/IBM networking rubbish. d. Other OS vendors consider tcp/ip to be part of the OS, and have for many years. Some form of networking capability has been part of the OS for most computers since the beginning days of SNA and RJE, over 40 years ago. e. You have to have tcp/ip working on the system to sell to many customers and government departments. f. Third party tcp/ip implementations were usually tardy and buggy, therefor there was a good argument that the customer needed this convenience included. Unlike the case with browsers. g. tcp/ip is a low level protocol. Nobody would ever have argued it was an application. Non-programmers always had a very hard time installing it into windows from third party packages, as did many programmers, for that matter. Whereas browsers sit on top of everything else and are pretty much a snap to install. >>>Continuing with #3: Of course, it's not good to make enemies out of so many weaker players that it eventually becomes almost the entire technology industry that is out to get you.<<< Send a note to Batista, eh? They've made it so that now the rest of the software industry have to bring MSFT low or perish themselves. Programmers would rather be programming, marketers marketing, VCs venturing, but MSFT has set it up so that now we are spending our time surviving. And that's when things get serious. Chaz