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To: Richard S. Schoenstadt who wrote (8082)	12/30/1997 6:41:00 PM
From: M. Frank Greiffenstein	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 31646

<<Mike, I see the neighborhood thugs have given you their typically warm Tpro welcome.>> Interesting. We can't express skepticism of Mike Winn's faith basis for his statements, but he can express sketpcism about our motives? <<You must see we can't use your type here. Somebody who is honest, decent and knows what he is talking about.>> It's obvious you aren't talking about Mike Winn, and Diogenes doesn't post here. <<But that said I guess there are a few of us who are really perverse and would like to hear something other then mindless bombast and rah rah. >> I see, so before Winn arrived, every post was mindless bombast. I demand to know which planet you are from! <<As for those of you who are attacking Mike, talk about stupid. Here is somebody who directly works with embedded processors, knows what he is talking about and you are trying to drive him off the thread.>> How do you know he works directly with embedded processors, just becasue he says so? You'll blindly accept his representations, but the rest of us are mindless bombasters. Sorry Rich, we have to prove our arguments, same applies to Mike Winn. <<I want to know why he doesn't think year 2k is such a big deal and how he answers the above questions as well as some that others have posed. >> The only fair thing you have said so far. Agreed. <<In case some of you have forgotten, according to Jenkins, when this yr 2k issue was first discussed at Tpro early this year there was internal dissension as to whether or not it was a real problem. So it appears that somebody can be expert in this area and in good faith believe there is not that big a problem.>> Agreed. But Mike Winn has posted alot of garbage after being offered a chance to explain himself. He is an empty windbag. You can wait for something more substantive if you wish. <<Mike keep posting.>> Isn't democracy wonderful? Read some Tocqueville. <<I will certainly listen to what you have to say. I know there are others who are interested.>> Name one besides Toothfairy. <<By the way this does not preclude the possibility that Tpro is also hyping the problem.>> Huh? Have you been following this thread at all? You can't get management much more credible. Sure, there is a probability that ANYTHING may be true, but you don't press over 30K CD ROMS in a hype campaign, and you don't take engineers off money making projects to write time consuming and intricate software. You hire competent, verbally agile PR people. And Lelios ain't that . DocStone

To: Richard S. Schoenstadt who wrote (8082)	12/30/1997 6:58:00 PM
From: Jack Zahran	Respond to of 31646

Richard, Mike's credentials aren't the issue, but tcalling his thread "thugs" like you do so casually is poor. The good people here have done a lot of work looking at both sides of the coin. Mike is a newcomer who hasn't even backed up what he has stated yet. On top of that he has made sweeping statements, telling us that the entire Y2K industry is false, simply because he claims that B-Tree has a poor testing product. TPRO has already proved they have a legit product by landing a few Y2K contracts within only a couple of months of their product intro. There is nothing wrong to expect others you are having a discussion with to back up what they say. For example, why don't you more specifically point out who the thugs are, instead of just saying the thugs on this thread? Do you want us to simply sit idly by as individuals make unsubstantiated statements that reak of no DD or even worse: bad motive. Mike, for example, has avoided answering some very simple questions I posted to him twice, namely: - What C-Like interpreted language was used in B-Tree's product? - Why didn't he simply convert it to C, if it was so C-Like? - What does B-Tree's "poor" (according to him) product have to do with TPRO? If he truly is a Contract Engineer for 20 some odd years, surely he can answer such simple questions. What's wrong in demanding that someone back up what they say? Are we really acting like thugs to ask him to come forward? Aren't we giving him an oppurtunity to exonerate his position? We are still waiting for him to do this. I can't wait to read his DD, if he even posts as his latest posts indicate that he is trying to worm out of it. Jack

To: Richard S. Schoenstadt who wrote (8082)	12/30/1997 7:04:00 PM
From: Andrew H	Respond to of 31646

>>Although we will have to wait for the pilot project to end and the contract for the 125 plants to be formalized to be absolutely certain.<< Richard, as I read it, the contract for the 125 plants has already been formalized and does not depend on the pilot project. They are merely waiting for completion of the pilot project for the 125 plant rollout. One can only assume that the pilot project revealed enough problems so that plans for the 125 plant rollout were speeded up. The announcement specifically refers to an agreement to provide services for 125 plants. >>As for those of you who are attacking Mike, talk about stupid. Here is somebody who directly works with embedded processors, knows what he is talking about and you are trying to drive him off the thread.<< If you pay attention to the TONE of Mike's posts, I think it is clear why some of the responses to him have been less than cordial. He has presented himself as arrogant and condescending to a group of people who have spent many hours researching the embedded chip problem. As yet he has provided virtually no hard information while making a number of unsupported and provocative statements. We have only his word that he works with embedded processors and knows what he is talking about. Since he has not approached us with the slightest degree of respect, we should not be expected to take him at his word. Hopefully he will provide us with something of greater substance.

To: Richard S. Schoenstadt who wrote (8082)	12/30/1997 7:57:00 PM
From: Bonzo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 31646

>>Mike, I see the neighborhood thugs have given you their typically warm Tpro welcome.<< (Richard if you are going to side with someone, or play the devils advocate, surely you can pick someone who has posted substantive evidence to base his position on - like the ToothFairy) :-) So you would blindly accept what Mr. Winn has to say about the Embedded Controller problem and disregard what the following organizations, associations, reputable firms and other knowledeable posters have said about it - GET REAL! It appears Mr. Winn has an axe to grind. I also believe his experience is narrowly based since NOT ONCE did he mention that the problem COULD exist in factory automation. I believe he is either in denial, or his experience is specialized in areas that have not exhibited this problem. TPRO has 23 years in the factory. I know of a mid-west glass mfg. company who at this time does not know whether they will be affected by Embedded Y2K Controller problems. Thier assessment has only begun. They have acknowledged that potential problems exist (in-law works there). I know of a large tobacco mfg. who does not know the extent of thier Embedded Y2K problems at this time. BMY - Do you think for one second that BMY does not have its own qualifed Mfg. Engineers who have performed some assessment of the Embedded Controller problem and have determined that they are going to need help with this in order to COMPLETELY assess and remediate the problems? After all who knows the factory systems better than BMY's own mfg. engineers? That said, think they are the only Parmaceutical company who uses like equipment and may discover like problems? Think I'll go with BMY/TPRO over Mr. Winn. TPRO - 30,000 CD's shipped for Demo purposes to Wonderware, a publicly traded company with 20,000 factory site clients. Oh this is a conspiracy of mass proportions! Think I'll go with Wonderware. Yardeni Raytehon Automated Systems (we will take care of our clients first) De Jager Real Time Engineering UK (1 in 5 embedded controller systems will fail based on thier extensive research) The Embedded Software Assn. B-Tree (why design a diagnostic tool with a starting price of $55,000 for a problem that doesn't exist?) NRC NEI Electric Power Research Institute ISEE

To: Richard S. Schoenstadt who wrote (8082)	12/30/1997 8:05:00 PM
From: TokyoMex	Respond to of 31646

Here is more for you and this is from six pack thug on TPRO thread... You suck big timo RS junior.apk.net A gift I first gave you when you joined us having bought late... Also for MW, I think B-Tree and Jan amply proved the integrity or rather intellengence of him.. in no uncertain terms.. As for arguing in JZs or Docs fashion in response to your verbiage,,, I spent too far many hours writing briefs to put up with your nasty hunch back mentality.... suggest you do more DD RS,, you dissapoint me every time you open your mouth... Joe LOL Six Pack TPRO