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Politics : The Trump Presidency -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (3783)

12/28/2016 6:09:09 PM

From: one_less

Respond to of 357211

>>>"What did anyone gain from votes for him?"<<< A better understanding of issues that matter and a clear conscience, and my kids were entertained when I said his name.

I voted for Ralph across three elections.

Ralph Nader on the Political Issues that Matter

Nader Obama McCain

Adopt single payer national health insurance	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
No to nuclear power, solar energy first	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Open up the Presidential debates	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Adopt a carbon pollution tax	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Impeach Bush/Cheney	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Put an end to ballot access obstructionism	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Work to end corporate personhood	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Defend, Restore and Strengthen the Civil Justice System	On the table	Off the table	Off the table
Adopt the National Initiative	On the table	Off the table	Off the table

To: koan who wrote (3783)	12/28/2016 6:12:28 PM
From: koan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 357211

This argument that I was a hero because I didn't vote for Trump, but I couldn't vote for Hillary because I had to vote for my conscience makes me want to set my hair on fire. What kind of conscience is it that a person is listening to that allows through their neglect a virulent dictator to assume power and who everyone knows will lay waste to the poor and downtrodden? All of the people that voted for Stein, or Johnson, or another third-party person or stayed at home, or even advocated for them, are partially to blame for the situation we have right now. It was easy to read Trump. He is an open book. And the book opens two similar books written by Putin and Hitler and Stalin. And it doesn't help that a person decides to vote for Stein in a blue state. Because they are still helping the other candidate, by giving credence and credibility to something that was neither. Jill Stein is an absolute Don Quixote clone. A complete fool who dances around in her cotton dress and bare feet spreading fairy dust. Even if she had been elected, she would've been a terrible president because she doesn't have good sense. We liberals, minorities, millennial's and women and LGBT community have to stick together. The logical place for that is the Democratic Party. That is where the power lies, that is the party we need to take over. Even if Jill Stein had won, what did she win? There is no party there, there is no power there. We have to recognize the severity of the threat coming at us out of Mordor and we need to meet it with a United Army, not a fragmented army. I think Sun Tzu would agree-lol.

To: koan who wrote (3783)	12/28/2016 7:06:18 PM
From: Lane3	2 Recommendations Recommended By one_less TimF Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 357211

From a political tactical point of view that is a terrible idea. We're talking about two different things. I'm addressing what an individual voter might consider knowing that his vote won't count because he lives in a state that will surely go the other way. The voter doing what feels best to him given that his vote doesn't count can hardly be a terrible idea. It provides info to the party about what liberals are thinking that they can use next time. You're talking about liberal candidate solidarity. Whole 'nother matter. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren hate everything about Hillary and her wing of the party, but they fought like hell to get her elected because they live in the world of reality and knew the threat Trump posed. You think that Jill cost Hillary the election, that she got enough votes in purple states to have made the difference? The Republican nominee received 2,771,984 votes, compared to Clinton's 2,317,001, or a difference of 454,983 votes. Johnson took home 168,599 votes in the state and Stein received 44,310. It's important to note that Stein alone did not cost Clinton enough electoral votes to overtake Trump. Bernie may have, though. He pulled her too far to the left. And then he didn't swing his support to her early enough. He dithered and dithered before he got on board still pulling her down until very near the end. It's not enough to stick together. The liberals need to have a position that maximizes votes. Unity for a losing platform is a feel good exercise but not a winning one.